I don't forget that. Nor do I expect everyone to adapt to "my way". Not at all. However I know for a fact that I am not the only new user to cocoon having these issues. I can look at the mailing list archive a long way back and see people who have come, posted the same opinions and then subsequently never posted again. You may say "fine they can go to hell." but if you are trying to make a technology not just be a little niche technology with a little tight club as members than you need to change this turnover. People should come into cocoon, see its power and rapidly get a hello world up and start running with it. Only through this can you save the technology from the heap where all the other failed ones went.
The fact is that JSP continues to gather momentum and the era of XML-XSLT has all but been forgotten. To what do you attribute this? XML and XSLT and by extension cocoon has a very narrow window to get some serious press to make itself live. This window is passing by. Sitting there and saying "those damn newbies don't know anything!" might satisfy your sense of self but doesn't promote the technology. Similarly, replying to a mail such as mine and saying "Don't expect everything to be _your_ way the moment you arrive," doesn't accomplish anything except getting people to say, "ok fair enough," and heading for the door. In the end, cocoon has two choices. Adapt to the users or die. Its as simple as that. If you keep telling us to shut up for whining about how hard it is to get started, that's fine. The technology will die. If you ask me, the cocoon development effort should refocus itself from developing more features to getting the product in a state such as tomcat is in. A state where people say "cocoon? Oh that's easy to use. getting hello-world to work is like a 10 minute affair. You only need to worry about all the fancy features if you need to use them, give it a shot." Right now, to the newbie, cocoon only inspires three words. Those are, "What the hell?" As for me, I don't screw with it any more. I have a book to write and publishing schedules to make and the book isn't even remotely about client side stuff and therefore anything not easy on the client side has to be off the shelf. -- Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Noels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 7:03 PM Subject: Re: Cocoon is too complex for consumption? > Robert Simmons wrote: > > > Lastly, flaming is not an option. These are the opinions from a > > newbie comming into cocoon. Readers of this list can flame all they > > want but that is just hiding from the very real problems. > > Robert, I can only give you one advise: don't forget human beings are > sitting behind these MUAs. Don't expect everything to be _your_ way the > moment you arrive. > > (ditto for the Jakarta Forums idea). > > </Steven> > -- > Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/ > Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center > Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/ > stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
