On Tuesday, Oct 21, 2003, at 07:03 Europe/Rome, Craig R. McClanahan wrote:
Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:02:35 -0400 (Subject: Re: Inappropriate use of announce@) Rodent of Unusual Size <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
tetsuya has a lot of energy, and i think we are seeing the common decay into inertia and conservatism common to groups as they grow and age. imho, we should work against this tendency, and seek to empower people (or at least help them find appropriate ways to use all that energy) rather than stifle them with policies and bureaucracy.
Thank you :)
The only two ways to avoid bureaucracy are : * Accept the difference, heterogeneous ways of thinking with each other (with RESPECT) * Invite Innovative-Mind guys/ladies constantly
Innovative (half of the computer engineers have such a mind)
way of thinking can be easily in opposition to that
of Conservative. This is explained by the brain
(In these cases, right-cerebral brain and left-limbic brain) mechanism.
Bureaucracy is highly tied up with left-limbic brain. Also,
bureaucracy is one of "social-disease"s, which are curable
by no means. Bureaucrats tend to hide their asses,
possess the instinct of self-preservation, and highly
show the self-defense mechanism when
attacked by innovative (non-conservative, liberal) ones.
# Self-Defense Mechanism can be perceived by very funny
# reactions of the bureaucrats. Very Funny, Indeed.
The matter is worse, those who are genuine :) bureaucrats can not assay themselves as they are suffering from the disease
of bureaucratism.
This (bureaucracy) can be found here, there, everywhere in japan :) Incurable serious disease of the society... As if we are awiting the collapse to death of our social system within a few years.
well well, you are just going too far here, IMO.
One thing is being rude and non diplomatic. An entirely different thing is to be a part of a serious disease.
sad.
Even more sad that you can see the similarities, but not the differences.
When I apologized it was because of the tone of the discussion and because the discussion took place in the wrong location (when foundation-wide entities start to deal with merit issues, the entire foundation looses the ability to increase its diversity, thus to adapt better to a changing environment)
Now, you want the system to adapt to you, but how much are you going to adapt to the system?
Calling the ASF beaurocratic shows only how low your ability to understand and adapt to a much more complex system is.
This is understandable, but not excusable as a reason to resign.
[you can just say "sorry, I'm tired" or "have no time for this" and that would be a perfect reason to resign, but that's another story]
Tetsuya,
Like many others here, I definitely appreciate your contributions on the Apache Newsletter. It has been a task needing to be done, but nobody previously was willing to put in the energy and enthusiasm you have shown to actually make it happen. But I would like to point out something you *might* not have given enough weight to in your own thinking -- cultural sensitivity is a two way street.
One of the hardest things for many newcomers to Apache (or other open source cultures that operate similarly) is the brusque-sounding tone of many comments. It's not personal -- it's based on a (shared) goal to improve things, not necessarily (or even usually) intended to shut things down. There are more than a few times when I've come close to saying "to heck with this place" due to criticisms of my actions that I took too personally; but not doing so was one of the best things I ever avoided doing.
Your comment about bureacracy is interesting. For the first time in my life, I've spent the last three+ years working for a big company (Sun), after working for organizations with < 500 employees previously in my career. Apache's bureaucracy doesn't hold a candle to Sun's :-). Nor, from what I gather, does it compare to most other big organizations either. In fact, the real problems I see for Apache are almost the opposite. It is the *lack* of a final "authority" making decisions is what causes most of the conflict I see.
True, but for &deity;'s sake, I wouldn't want to change!!!
As a wise and effective politician once said "democracy is a terribly poor form of government, but every other one is worse".
The meritocratic system we use has its own defects and it's questionable if it can scale more without collapsing on its own weight (due to its inverted top-bottom flow of control), but any other form of government would possibly induce higher efficiency, but lower our ability to adapt and diversify.
In the case at hand, you ended up reacting to one person's statement. That person did not speak for the Board or the Members; he spoke for himself. I personally doubt if his opinion was, or is, even a majority view of whatever constituency you consider to be "the Apache community." And, the fact that the previous community@apache.org discussions on this topic did not reach any definite conclusion is a symptom of the *lack* of an authoritative Apache bureacracy, rather than evidence that one exists.
True. But I wouldn't all "symptom" something that is, IMO, good.
But, that's the way it is, and it's not going to change. Apache is not like your typical American cultural institution, any more than it's like your typical Japanese institution. We all need to learn how to interact with this strange beast, and make it better all the while. Your expecting it to behave in a way that is comfortable to the Japanese culture would be just as incorrect (and unlikely) as me expecting it to behave in the American culture that I'm operating in. It's not going to happen.
Very very true. We are the sum of our parts. Including the parts of each other cultures that we dislike, but it's not about tolerance (which is intrinsically egocentric and rude), it's about "respect of the differences", which shows how things can be learned from others about ourselves.
Our choice is to deal with it, or not participate. I, for one, voted for "deal with it." My preference would be that you did so also, but that's up to you.
I completely resonate with Craig.
And the fact that this event is rather rare in the history of the foundation ;-) shows that having by keeping your position solid despite the changes in the environment, it's a weak position.
Remember what I said to you a while ago: open source values people that make mistakes, apologize and change their minds more than people that never admit so, or that keep their ego and pride in front of everything.
[I'm not talking about you personally, but in general]
My suggestion is: take a step back, relax, let the emotional energy calm down and then look at the problem again in a few months. you might find yourself and this community different from what they look to you today.
And remember that coherence in a highly diverse and adapting environment is more than anything, showing the inability to adapt, improve and learn from our own and, possibly, other ones' mistakes.
It's not a virtue, it's an excuse to protect ourselves from the psychological effect of changes.
-- Stefano.
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