On Tuesday, Oct 21, 2003, at 09:07 Europe/Rome, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:52:16 +0200 Stefano Mazzocchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
When I apologized it was because of the tone of the discussion and because the discussion took place in the wrong location (when foundation-wide entities start to deal with merit issues, the entire
foundation looses the ability to increase its diversity, thus to adapt better to a changing environment)
Stefano, to tell the truth, what made me sad was the apologies from you at [EMAIL PROTECTED] You, announce@ moderator, should not have apologized because you were *not* guilty. What made me angry and sad was not the TONE of the controversy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rather, what I did (publish the newsletter) let you apologize to the other people.
I understand and respect your feelings and positions, but I also would like you to know that I was not sad, nor angry, just disappointed by what happened over at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This discussions seems to be touching several human sides and it's probably getting bigger that is should be, but there are a few things that were realized:
1) infrastructure@ should deal with infrastructure issues *only*. the decisions to use announce@ for publishing the newsletter should *NOT* have been discussed on infrastructure and any decision taken by them without a reasonable infrastructural concern should be void and overruled.
2) open source communities tend to be aggressive environments. I don't know if this is because we have "our hearts on our keyboards" as Ken poetically phrased ('poetically' intended as a compliment, not as ironic criticism), if because email is such a poor communication media, if we use a common language and native speakers tend to forget the impedence mismatch with non-native speakers, if we haven't seen in person before, .... a lot of potential reasons.
NOTE: #2 is, IMHO, the reason why women cannot stay in an open source environment for long. Women dislike aggressive environments by nature.
3) burn-out happens. I have been burned out twice and in both situations I left for a while. As long as one year at one point. All the people that I know and learned from all burned out, some left for some time, some left entirely.
4) the more the foundation grows, the harder is going to be to change something. this appears as beaurocracy, but it's not, it's just social inertia and it's not as bad as it seems because it keeps thing sane.
Yes, I knew that you did really take care of the mood of "community" and i suspect that you apologized because of it. However, it made me sad at the same time.
You shouldn't be.
I felt I had to apologize because when I consider myself part of a community or team (not that I'm consider myself part of infrastructure@, i'm just a stupid lurker there with no sysadm skills whatsoever), if one makes a mistake, the entire community makes it.
I don't think David and Sander did such a bad thing, they expressed their opinion, but I disliked the way they did and I wanted to apologize for the feeling you got out of this.
You felt sad but they probably felt angry at me because of this, but, if they did, they didn't express it publicly.
As you see, there are many sides all the time and it's really hard to find a balance.
It takes respect and a good dose of patience and ability to digest what you dislike and simply pass by without taking it personally. And, believe me, this is an art on its own and crosses cultural borders to reach the limits of wisdom.
...but I'm getting too philosophical, I think, so I stop here and just respect your choice.
Calling the ASF beaurocratic shows only how low your ability to understand and adapt to a much more complex system is.
No, I did not declare. I am now talking about the *beaurocracy* with the people in japanese government. Most of my juniors (Kouhai) / seniors (Sempai) are government officials.
That's it.
Oh, then if I misinterpreted your comments. Sorry for that.
-- Stefano.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
