-Caveat Lector-
Re: government subsidies. I don't disagree with you on this point. Why
should the government subsidize a particular economic sector (or special
interest group) and not others? But that is how the game of power is
played. The government is particularly generous to business interests of
various sorts: Savings and Loan bailouts, bailouts to Mexican investors,
bailouts to Wall Street junk bond investors, subsidies to defense
contractors.... not to mention billions of dollars in armaments to
oppressive dictators in central America, South America and wherever else
peasants are seeking to overthrow their rulers. So, the subject of tax
dollars going to finance any number of dubious schemes/boondoggles/etc. is
a complex one.
My tax dollars have supported the murder of millions of peasants around
the world... in order to help some greedy corporate elites to make money
off of the misery of poor people... I had no vote on the matter. Why
should my tax dollars go to support United Fruit in Guatemala and El
Salvador?
Re: NAFTA
American workers have seen their businesses sent to Mexico...thanks to
NAFTA. Are you aware of the fact that government agencies work with
private businesses to help them close down their American operations to
move to slave labor markets overseas?
Re: "sending kids off to war." Your caustic comment notwithstanding, you
nor I wouldn't be enjoying the freedoms we do have, if it wasn't for the
sacrifice of others... Perhaps, they were "stupid" to fight for this
country. I don't think so.
Re: "paying bills." People have been paying YOUR bill for a long time.
They paid at Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Omaha, and a helluva lot of other places..
so you OWE something to this country...
A lot of Americans have paid the price so that you can have your miserable
little life. You should be proud to be a citizen...greatful to have the
money to pay. Or maybe it's time for you to move to the Cayman Islands or
some taxhaven with others of your ilk.
Regards,
Wm
On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Hawk wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
> William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
>
> > -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > You need to do some research on the subject, H. (with all due respect).
> > The Canadian government is subsidizing their producers.
>
> I don't care at all what the Canadian govm't subsidizes or doesn't subsidize. I
>would be
> delighted if they bought every grain of Canadian wheat and gave it to me free.
>
> > Your remarks about agricultural subsidies demonstrates your basic lack of
>knowledge about
> > conditions in the agricultural sector.
>
> I freely admit to "lack of knowledge" about conditions in the agricultural sector.
>However,
> I don't have to have a great deal of knowledge to know that it is wrong for the
>govm't to
> take MY money, against my will, and give it to farmers. Anything beyond that
>knowledge on
> the subject of subsidies is immaterial.
>
> By the way, I just read in this morning's Dallas Morning News that the U.S.
>Agriculture Dept
> (which has more employees than there are farmers in the U.S.) has "settled a
>lawsuit" with
> Negro farmers, in which the "farmers" will get a $50,000 cash award, plus all debts
>to the
> govm't will be canceled, which are estimated to be between $75,000 and $100,000
>each. Do I
> have to be more knowlegable than that to know that I'm being screwed?
>
> > The reason why you should "buy American" is quite simple. Your dollars are going
>to
> > insure the continued productivity of our domestic economy.
>
> You've taken the bait, I see. You're telling me that I have some obligation to
>support
> people who otherwise cannot make a living at their chosen profession. Sir, I am not
> responsible for their inept farming or business practices, nor for their choice of
>how to
> make a living. They aren't responsible for mine either, by the way.
>
> > The wheat farmers are Americans who pay taxes, send their kids off to war
> > to protect the country.
>
> I pay my taxes, too... But I don't get a subsidy from farmers so I can be
>self-employed...
> And as for sending their kids off to war, then they are stupid to boot. I am not
> responsible for other peoples' stupidity.
>
> > If the wheat farmers do well economically, rural America does well...
>
> So, I should pay higher prices than the free market will bear.... is that right? So
>"rural
> America will do well"??? And, by the same token, I should pay higher prices for
>automobiles
> so the United Autoworkers will do well? And exhorbitant taxes to support inferior
>schools
> so the teachers "will do well?" Give me a break!
>
> > The agricultural sector supports thousands of small businesses throughout the
>American
> > Midwest. Each dollar that is spent in a rural community is "rolled over" several
>times
> > through that community.
>
> Good... Spend your own dollars, and stop taking mine... If that's your objective, go
>right
> ahead... But don't force me support people who don't give a damn whether or not I
>have to
> pay too much for what I buy.
>
> > When you buy American products, you are supporting your country. It's that simple.
>
> Yep... That's one of the most "simple" things a person could say....
>
> > You are indirectly the beneficiary of the economic wellbeing of your fellow
>citizens.
>
> Maybe so, but I am DIRECTLY the victim of having my money extorted from me. Anytime
>someone
> starts talking about how I will benefit from someone else's govm't support, I
>automatically
> reach for my wallet.
>
> > The farmers pay taxes that support basic services like schools, highways, medical
> > services...
>
> Then they're being conned, too... Welcome to the club.
>
> > If your fellow citizens go under economically, eventually, YOU will be asked to
>pay for
> > their welfare.
>
> "Eventually, my ass!" I'm already being FORCED to pay for their welfare. I don't
>recall
> being "asked."
>
> > Their economic distress undermines your own economic security. How so?
>
> They need to get a job that pays a living without extorting my money to subsidize
>their
> lifestyle...
>
> > Re-read your American history. Take a look at the American Depression. When money
>is
> > taken out of an economy, out of the pockets of ordinary working people, the system
> > eventually collapses.
>
> That's my point... "MONEY IS BEING TAKEN OUT OF MY POCKET".... and, you're right,
>the system
> will indeed collapse.
>
> > Re: Your "tribal mentality" remarks. They are fundamentally racist and absurd.
>
> Yeah, yeah... You haven't a clue about who I am or what my ideas about "race" are.
>As for
> the results, which is what I commented on, do you deny it?
>
> > First of all, Native Americans did not have a "money" economy.
>
> That's because they didn't have any money.... Everything is "the property of the
>tribe."
> That's why they were living in tents, and why they now live in hovels. The point
>is, they
> created no wealth, and having no one the tax, they were destitute.
>
> > Re: "God made animals for us" comments. They're made for the plate? An
> > interesting argument. I would only point out that we might consider some
> > healthier, "kinder and gentler" (borrowing a phrase) ways of taking care
> > of our protein needs. Just a thought. But of course we could follow PJ
> > O'Rourke's advice and eat the rich.
>
> You eat whatever you wish... I don't care what you eat... or who, for that matter.
>Just
> don't expect me to pay your bills.
>
> Hawk
>
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==========
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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