On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 01:42:17AM +0000, Sean Lynch wrote: > On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 5:40 PM juan <juan....@gmail.com> wrote: > > So yeah, tor is a great tool for freedom and appelbaum is a > > rapist. And you who don't believe in 'conspiracy theories' get > > your data from mob hearsay. > > The "mob" is just whoever's on the side you disagree with.
Nope. "The mob" is a group of individuals who collectively proclaim a falsehood, or a possible (and presumed) but possibly or probably false claim. The environment of "the mob" is far different to simply "their side" or "the other side". The "mob" implies a lack of rationality, impulsive or emotional --and collective-- (re)action, from emotional and not rational premises or assumptions; the mob is a devolvement of what is presumed to be "community" but has descended into an out of control group that is likely, or certain to, cause significant injustice to one or more individuals and or their property. That's "the mob". > You want to portray them as unthinking, just going with the crowd. Because those in the mob are unthinking, at least, they are not thinking to a level required to preserve justice (for accused and or for false accused individuals). Those who are part of the mob have spoken and or acted in a way which is not in the interests of "justice" or "righteousness". > But what are you doing? Jake is a hero to you, and a fellow man, and > you already believed Tor wasn't to be trusted, so no thought is even > necessary. He's "obviously" innocent and the victim of a smear > campaign. What you are saying is not true. It's not true from everything I've seen Juan say - in fact, I've seen Juan speak quite vehemently about Jacob Applebaum, having been a Tor Inc employee, as a fascist government supporting "tor bot" arsehole, or words to that effect. Why is it that you suggest Juan is a JA "fan boy"? I've seen no single fact in support of such an assertion, and I've seen plenty of Juan's statements quite clearly to the contrary. Somewhat similarly, I have admitted to neither knowing Jacob, nor ever having met him, and having seen one or two YouTubes and liked what I saw. So I do not know the truth behind the accusations, although I do have some strong opinions based on the superficiality of the anonymous, retracted, modified and otherwise denounced by quite a few intelligent people, "rape" claims. My opinion is fortified by my understanding of the requirements for justice and righteousness. My opinion is further fortified by analysis and direct contributions and responses by more than one actual rape victim, at least one of which who knew Jacob Applebaum personally. I have also read all the material here: https://github.com/Enegnei/JacobAppelbaumLeavesTor and especially the very significant in my mind series: http://theindicter.com/the-weaponising-of-social-part-1-the-crucifixion-of-ioerror/ https://contraspin.co.nz/the-weaponising-of-social-pt-2-stomping-on-ioerrors-grave/ https://contraspin.co.nz/the-weaponising-of-social-part-3-the-resurrection-of-ioerror/ All this is very, very compelling. Most of this has been posted to this list. It is clear that in the face of all this, you are taking quite a different position. That speaks loudly. > But name a public rape accusation Exactly what is "a public rape accusation" supposed to be useful for? > that hasn't instantly had multiple smear > campaigns spin up against the *accusers*. So exactly how is "a public rape accusation", by 12 separate people about at least 12 separate alleged events which allegedly accord closely enough to the term "rape" to supposedly be appropriately associated with the term "rape", with absolutely NO legal or police or even any arms length investigation, except by Die Zeit newspaper, supposed to be an appropriate way to handle 12 separate events allegedly appropriately associated with the term rape? Do you agree with that approach? And, will you speak specifically to the public rape accusation -campaign- made which targetted Jacob Applebaum? (As in, do you have any intelligent comment other than jumping on the highly offensive "Rapey Jakey" bandwagon?) Do you know why I use the word "campaign" in this context? If not, have you read all the material at: https://github.com/Enegnei/JacobAppelbaumLeavesTor ? If not, STOP your bullshit and go read it!!! If you have read all that material, and have enough short term and medium term memory capacity to maintain reasonable quantum of that information in your forebrain at once, why the hell are you using the "term" "rapey"??!!! Without some serious answers by you, there's no further point responding to 'the rest of what you say' below. Seriously. > That's happening here, not just > against his direct accusers, but against the people who believe his > accusers, and the people who believe the people who believe his accusers. > People who had barely even heard of Shari Steele before are saying the > nastiest things about her. I'm getting accused of "licking my wife's boots." > > There are clear and obvious smear campaigns going on here, and not a lot of > rational thought. I'm inclined to just discount "the usual suspects" whom > the MRA label fits like a glove, and to believe people who had to write > public announcements that were clearly very difficult for them and put > their reputations on the line and shake up an important project. > > You talk about not needing enemies with "libertarians like me", but you > obviously "need" enemies because you see them around every single corner. > You have considered Tor an enemy from the start, and now you're ready to > write off the CDC, CCC, Debian, Shari Steele and probably the EFF in one > fell swoop. > > Which would be easier, orchestrating a smear campaign with multiple false > accusations of rape and sexual misconduct against a well-respected member > of a major software project, or to take advantage of such an opportunity > when it arose to cause a bunch of people to distrust a bunch of critical > freedom-oriented organizations? > > But really, I suspect the only thing the TLAs need for this particular > battle is a large supply of popcorn. But given that I expect a lot more > projects and organizations will be starting to purge their own Appelbaums > and/or encouraging them to start treating women and everyone else like > human beings. > > Speaking of "everyone else", I note you call Chelsea Manning "he", > presumably because doing the opposite of what the "PC crowd" wants you to > do is more important to you than civility, even (perhaps especially) to > people who have suffered from discrimination all their lives. > > WIth "libertarians" like you, it's no surprise that few people who care in > the slightest about anyone who's not exactly like them is willing to > identify themselves as "libertarian." Because your "liiberty" is not "free > to be you and me," it's just "free to be me." You want the freedom but not > the responsibility to think about the consequences of your actions for > others. No wonder you're such an Appelbaum fan: he's exactly what you > aspire to be.
