While we are at it, we may also want to pull the in-jvm dtest API as a submodule, and actually move some tests that are common between the branches there.
On Thu, May 25, 2023, at 6:03 AM, Caleb Rackliffe wrote: > Isn’t the other reason Accord works well as a submodule that it has no > dependencies on C* proper? Harry does at the moment, right? (Not that we > couldn’t address that…just trying to think this through…) > >> On May 24, 2023, at 6:54 PM, Benedict <bened...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> >> In this case Harry is a testing module - it’s not something we will develop >> in tandem with C* releases, and we will want improvements to be applied >> across all branches. >> >> So it seems a natural fit for submodules to me. >> >> >>> On 24 May 2023, at 21:09, Caleb Rackliffe <calebrackli...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Submodules do have their own overhead and edge cases, so I am mostly in >>> > favor of using for cases where the code must live outside of tree (such >>> > as jvm-dtest that lives out of tree as all branches need the same >>> > interfaces) >>> >>> Agreed. Basically where I've ended up on this topic. >>> >>> > We could go over some interesting examples such as testing 2i (SAI) >>> >>> +100 >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 1:40 PM Alex Petrov <al...@coffeenco.de> wrote: >>>> __ >>>> > I'm about to need to harry test for the paging across tombstone work for >>>> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18424 (that's where my >>>> > own overlapping fuzzing came in). In the process, I'll see if I can't >>>> > distill something really simple along the lines of how React approaches >>>> > it (https://react.dev/learn). >>>> >>>> We can pick that up as an example, sure. >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:53 PM, Josh McKenzie wrote: >>>>>> I have submitted a proposal to Cassandra Summit for a 4-hour Harry >>>>>> workshop, >>>>> I'm about to need to harry test for the paging across tombstone work for >>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18424 (that's where my >>>>> own overlapping fuzzing came in). In the process, I'll see if I can't >>>>> distill something really simple along the lines of how React approaches >>>>> it (https://react.dev/learn). >>>>> >>>>> Ideally we'd be able to get something together that's a high level "In >>>>> the next 15 minutes, you will know and understand A-G and have access to >>>>> N% of the power of harry" kind of offer. >>>>> >>>>> Honestly, there's a *lot* in our ecosystem where we could benefit from >>>>> taking a page from their book in terms of onboarding and getting started >>>>> IMO. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Alex Petrov wrote: >>>>>> > I wonder if a mini-onboarding session would be good as a community >>>>>> > session - go over Harry, how to run it, how to add a test? Would that >>>>>> > be the right venue? I just would like to see how we can not only plug >>>>>> > it in to regular CI but get everyone that wants to add a test be able >>>>>> > to know how to get started with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have submitted a proposal to Cassandra Summit for a 4-hour Harry >>>>>> workshop, but unfortunately it got declined. Goes without saying, we can >>>>>> still do it online, time and resources permitting. But again, I do not >>>>>> think it should be barring us from making Harry a part of the codebase, >>>>>> as it already is. In fact, we can be iterating on the development >>>>>> quicker having it in-tree. >>>>>> >>>>>> We could go over some interesting examples such as testing 2i (SAI), >>>>>> modelling Group By tests, or testing repair. If there is enough appetite >>>>>> and collaboration in the community, I will see if we can pull something >>>>>> like that together. Input on _what_ you would like to see / hear / >>>>>> tested is also appreciated. Harry was developed out of a strong need for >>>>>> large-scale testing, which also has informed many of its APIs, but we >>>>>> can make it easier to access for interactive testing / unit tests. We >>>>>> have been doing a lot of that with Transactional Metadata, too. >>>>>> >>>>>> > I'll hold off on this until Alex Petrov chimes in. @Alex -> got any >>>>>> > thoughts here? >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, sorry for not responding on this thread earlier. I can not >>>>>> understate how excited I am about this, and how important I think this >>>>>> is. Time constraints are somehow hard to overcome, but I hope the >>>>>> results brought by TCM will make it all worth it. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:23 PM, Alex Petrov wrote: >>>>>>> I think pulling Harry into the tree will make adoption easier for the >>>>>>> folks. I have been a bit swamped with Transactional Metadata work, but >>>>>>> I wanted to make some of the things we were using for testing TCM >>>>>>> available outside of TCM branch. This includes a bunch of helper >>>>>>> methods to perform operations on the clusters, data generation, and >>>>>>> more useful stuff. Of course, the question always remains about how >>>>>>> much time I want to spend porting it all to Gossip, but I think we can >>>>>>> find a reasonable compromise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I would not set this improvement as a prerequisite to pulling Harry >>>>>>> into the main branch, but rather interpret it as a commitment from >>>>>>> myself to take community input and make it more approachable by the >>>>>>> day. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 2:44 PM, Josh McKenzie wrote: >>>>>>>>> importantly it’s a million times better than the dtest-api process - >>>>>>>>> which stymies development due to the friction. >>>>>>>> This is my major concern. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What prompted this thread was harry being external to the core >>>>>>>> codebase and the lack of adoption and usage of it having led to >>>>>>>> atrophy of certain aspects of it, which then led to redundant >>>>>>>> implementation of some fuzz testing and lost time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We'd all be better served to have this closer to the main codebase as >>>>>>>> a forcing function to smooth out the rough edges, integrate it, and >>>>>>>> make it a collective artifact and first class citizen IMO. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have similar opinions about the dtest-api. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:05 AM, Benedict wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It’s not without hiccups, and I’m sure we have more to learn. But it >>>>>>>>> mostly just works, and importantly it’s a million times better than >>>>>>>>> the dtest-api process - which stymies development due to the friction. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 24 May 2023, at 08:39, Mick Semb Wever <m...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WRT git submodules and CASSANDRA-18204, are we happy with how it is >>>>>>>>>> working for accord ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The time spent on getting that running has been a fair few hours, >>>>>>>>>> where we could have cut many manual module releases in that time. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> David and folks working on accord ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 23 May 2023 at 20:09, Josh McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> __ >>>>>>>>>>> I'll hold off on this until Alex Petrov chimes in. @Alex -> got any >>>>>>>>>>> thoughts here? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, May 16, 2023, at 5:17 PM, Jeremy Hanna wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I think it would be great to onboard Harry more officially into >>>>>>>>>>>> the project. However it would be nice to perhaps do some sanity >>>>>>>>>>>> checking outside of Apple folks to see how approachable it is. >>>>>>>>>>>> That is, can someone take it and just run it with the current >>>>>>>>>>>> readme without any additional context? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if a mini-onboarding session would be good as a community >>>>>>>>>>>> session - go over Harry, how to run it, how to add a test? Would >>>>>>>>>>>> that be the right venue? I just would like to see how we can not >>>>>>>>>>>> only plug it in to regular CI but get everyone that wants to add a >>>>>>>>>>>> test be able to know how to get started with it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jeremy >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 16, 2023, at 1:34 PM, Abe Ratnofsky <a...@aber.io> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Just to make sure I'm understanding the details, this would mean >>>>>>>>>>>>> apache/cassandra-harry maintains its status as a separate >>>>>>>>>>>>> repository, apache/cassandra references it as a submodule, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> clones and builds Harry locally, rather than pulling a released >>>>>>>>>>>>> JAR. We can then reference Harry as a library without maintaining >>>>>>>>>>>>> public artifacts for it. Is that in line with what you're >>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> > I'd also like to see us get a Harry run integrated as part of >>>>>>>>>>>>> > our pre-commit CI >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a strong supporter of this, of course. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 16, 2023, at 11:03 AM, Josh McKenzie >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jmcken...@apache.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Similar to what we've done with accord in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18204, I'd like >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to discuss bringing cassandra-harry in-tree as a submodule. repo >>>>>>>>>>>>>> link: https://github.com/apache/cassandra-harry >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Given the value it's brought to the project's stabilization >>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts and the movement of other things in the ecosystem to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> being more integrated (accord, build-scripts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18133), I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> having the testing framework better localized and integrated >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be a net benefit for adoption, awareness, maintenance, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> tighter workflows as we troubleshoot future failures it surfaces. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd also like to see us get a Harry run integrated as part of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> our pre-commit CI (a 5 minute simple soak test for instance) and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> having that local in this fashion should make that a cleaner >>>>>>>>>>>>>> integration as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>
