On 16 May 2015 at 00:30, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 15 May 2015 at 23:28, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> wrote: >> Le vendredi 15 mai 2015 15:34:47 sebb a écrit : >>> > I think we really have some data model problem here regarding what is a >>> > "project's DOAP file": sometimes, a project is a PMC, sometimes a project >>> > is a deliverable, more like what is called in projectsnew.a.o a >>> > "sub-project" >>> That is not how I understand DOAPs. >>> >>> DOAP == Description Of A Project >>> >>> i.e. some releaseable artifact. >>> >>> A single PMC may have multiple projects, each with its own releases >>> and repositories. >>> These are modelled quite well in the DOAPs that PMCs have created. >> +1 >> >>> Information about the PMC which manages the projects is NOT stored in >>> a DOAP, it is stored in a PMC data file. >>> This is referenced from a DOAP using >>> >>> <asfext:pmd rdf:resource="URL"/> >>> >>> where URL is either an actual URL of a PMC data file or a dummy URL e.g. >>> >>> <asfext:pmc rdf:resource="http://<pmcname>.apache.org" /> >>> >>> which leads to a file here: >>> >>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects/da >>> ta_files/<pmcname>.rdf >> I'm not RDF expert, but this Apache-specific algorithm to find PMC rdf file >> seems >> strange: I understand it is coded/known from projects.a.o xslt transformation > > Yes. > >> But this should be usable from any RDF tooling, no? > > It's not currently usable except by using special processing. > > The problem is that the shorthand URL is used by all but about 4 of > the PMCs, so it would be a major challenge to get this fixed. > > Some PMCs are quick to fix such issues; some may take weeks or months > to fix even a simple error. > >> Another problem I see with these PMC data rdf files is that they seem to not >> be >> really maintained: I doubt PMCs update PMC data rdf files on each PMC Chair >> change. > > Yes. > >> That's why I had the idea of generating/updating the chair when >> parsing committee-info.txt. > > Fair enough, but that does not mean the code needs to create yet > another RDF file. > >> But other information manually written in current PMC data rdf files can't be >> found anywhere else, AFAIK. >> > > Yes. > >> Last problem: I personnally really didn't understand this PMC data rdf file >> until now. I don't know who understands it :) >> IMHO, the magic algorithm to find the rdf file is a root cause. > > The PMC data file is documented here: > > http://projects.apache.org/docs/pmc.html > >>> > if you look at https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc, typical >>> > cases for that are: >>> > - Incubator: there is the "the Incubator project", displayed without DOAP >>> > file since the incubator has special source info, and many sub-projects >>> > which provide DOAP files >>> > - Commons: there is no "Commons' DOAP file", then no TLP... on sub-project >>> > is quasi randomly chosen... Common's DOAP file, if it existed would not >>> > release anything, it"s a pure "organizational" project >>> >>> There is an ambiguity here: project can mean an organisational entity >>> and project can mean a releaseable artifact. >>> >>> There are different RDF files for the two meanings; only the artifact >>> has an associated DOAP. >>> >>> > - Ant: there is an Ant DOAP file that represent the TLP and the main >>> > released artifact >>> >>> No, it only links to the TLP = PMC data file, it does not represent the TLP. >>> The Ant DOAP file only represents the Ant product. >> ok, IIUC, I should rephrase https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?ant >> : >> 1. "Top Level Project data:" to "Apache Committee data:" >> 2. "Project established:" to "Committee established:" > > That does not seem necessary. > >> 3. "Sub-projects (8):" to "Projects (8):", eventually boldening the TLP if >> one >> is the TLP > > No - none of the projects are the TLP. > The TLP / PMC is not the same as any of its projects. > > Most PMCs happen to have the same name as one of their projects, but > they are distinct entities.
Note that the Creadur PMC does not have a Creadur project. > To take the Ant example, there needs to be an Ant PMC/TLP page and a > separate Ant project page. > These should be linked somehow. > >> and I should rename tlps.json to committees.json (and update code >> accordingly) > > No need. > >> then on https://projects-new.apache.org/ , do we really want to graph TLPs >> evolution or committees? > > No idea > >> I suppose commons can be called a TLP, even if it does not have any "main" >> project that is the effective TLP > > Yes, Commons is a TLP/PMC. > > I don't think it's helpful to think of PMCs having a "main" project. > > PMCs have one or more projects; each project has a single PMC. > >> comdev is not really a TLP: should probably not be listed in projects list, >> but as "special committee not producing projects"? > > Well, it is responsible for this mailing list and is probably > responsible for the projects.a.o website. > >> is Labs a TLP? or like comdev? > > What does committee-info.txt say? > >> I suppose we can hard-code the list of committees that are not expected to >> have projects, the list should not change often: Labs and comdev seem to be >> the only 2 (that extend special committees from 5 to 7) >> >> and finally, in https://projects-new.apache.org/ >> change "163 top level software projects >> 107 sub-projects" to "270 projects managed by 163 committees" (or 161 if labs >> and comdev are special committees) >> >> >> this seems to make sense >> if no objection, I'll code it >> >> Regards, >> >> Hervé >> >>> >>> > I chose Commons, but it could have been HttpComponents or Logging >>> > Services, or Lucene (Lucene have been very clear that there is a "Lucene >>> > core" sub- project), Web Services, Axis, Xalan, Xerces, XML Graphics, >>> > Attic, Creadur, DB, jUDDI, Tcl >>> > >>> > I chose Ant, but it could have been Velocity, MINA, Directory, HTTP >>> > Server, >>> > MyFaces, Tomcat >>> > >>> >> - (future) UI additions for *other* places. It would be awesome, for >>> >> example, to provide a tiny scriptlet that any project could inject in >>> >> their website that displays a "see also" menu. That would link to a >>> >> specific URL on projects.a.o that would say "hey, you came from >>> >> Cassandra, here are: -other big data projects, -other projects in Java, >>> >> -other projects with the same committers... etc." as a service. >>> >> >>> >> - Shane >>> > >>> > I'll continue tonight on this >>> > Any help appreciated >>> > >>> > Regards, >>> > >>> > Hervé >>