On 16 May 2015 at 08:31, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> wrote: > Le samedi 16 mai 2015 00:30:55 sebb a écrit : >> On 15 May 2015 at 23:28, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> wrote: >> > Le vendredi 15 mai 2015 15:34:47 sebb a écrit : >> >> > I think we really have some data model problem here regarding what is a >> >> > "project's DOAP file": sometimes, a project is a PMC, sometimes a >> >> > project >> >> > is a deliverable, more like what is called in projectsnew.a.o a >> >> > "sub-project" >> >> >> >> That is not how I understand DOAPs. >> >> >> >> DOAP == Description Of A Project >> >> >> >> i.e. some releaseable artifact. >> >> >> >> A single PMC may have multiple projects, each with its own releases >> >> and repositories. >> >> These are modelled quite well in the DOAPs that PMCs have created. >> > >> > +1 >> > >> >> Information about the PMC which manages the projects is NOT stored in >> >> a DOAP, it is stored in a PMC data file. >> >> This is referenced from a DOAP using >> >> >> >> <asfext:pmd rdf:resource="URL"/> >> >> >> >> where URL is either an actual URL of a PMC data file or a dummy URL e.g. >> >> >> >> <asfext:pmc rdf:resource="http://<pmcname>.apache.org" /> >> >> >> >> which leads to a file here: >> >> >> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects >> >> /da ta_files/<pmcname>.rdf >> > >> > I'm not RDF expert, but this Apache-specific algorithm to find PMC rdf >> > file seems strange: I understand it is coded/known from projects.a.o xslt >> > transformation >> Yes. >> >> > But this should be usable from any RDF tooling, no? >> >> It's not currently usable except by using special processing. >> >> The problem is that the shorthand URL is used by all but about 4 of >> the PMCs, so it would be a major challenge to get this fixed. >> >> Some PMCs are quick to fix such issues; some may take weeks or months >> to fix even a simple error. > I think that people don't understand this PMC information rdf file (I didn't > until our current discussion) > But with good explanations and visualization help given by projects-new.a.o, > we can go really faster: I'm ready to try once we're clear :) > >> >> > Another problem I see with these PMC data rdf files is that they seem to >> > not be really maintained: I doubt PMCs update PMC data rdf files on each >> > PMC Chair change. >> >> Yes. >> >> > That's why I had the idea of generating/updating the chair when >> > parsing committee-info.txt. >> >> Fair enough, but that does not mean the code needs to create yet >> another RDF file. > +1 > my itend was not to create a new one, but replace with generated info > >> >> > But other information manually written in current PMC data rdf files can't >> > be found anywhere else, AFAIK. >> >> Yes. > that's where it hurst: we need to mix handwritten with generated content... > nedd to be clear on the process > >> >> > Last problem: I personnally really didn't understand this PMC data rdf >> > file >> > until now. I don't know who understands it :) >> > IMHO, the magic algorithm to find the rdf file is a root cause. >> >> The PMC data file is documented here: >> >> http://projects.apache.org/docs/pmc.html > yeah, I read it several time before, I knew I was not confident with what I > read, and now I know I completely misread it until now.
Does it need clarifying? If so, what is not clear? How could it be improved? >> >> >> > if you look at https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc, >> >> > typical >> >> > cases for that are: >> >> > - Incubator: there is the "the Incubator project", displayed without >> >> > DOAP >> >> > file since the incubator has special source info, and many sub-projects >> >> > which provide DOAP files >> >> > - Commons: there is no "Commons' DOAP file", then no TLP... on >> >> > sub-project >> >> > is quasi randomly chosen... Common's DOAP file, if it existed would not >> >> > release anything, it"s a pure "organizational" project >> >> >> >> There is an ambiguity here: project can mean an organisational entity >> >> and project can mean a releaseable artifact. >> >> >> >> There are different RDF files for the two meanings; only the artifact >> >> has an associated DOAP. >> >> >> >> > - Ant: there is an Ant DOAP file that represent the TLP and the main >> >> > released artifact >> >> >> >> No, it only links to the TLP = PMC data file, it does not represent the >> >> TLP. The Ant DOAP file only represents the Ant product. >> > >> > ok, IIUC, I should rephrase >> > https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?ant : 1. "Top Level Project >> > data:" to "Apache Committee data:" >> > 2. "Project established:" to "Committee established:" >> >> That does not seem necessary. >> >> > 3. "Sub-projects (8):" to "Projects (8):", eventually boldening the TLP if >> > one is the TLP >> >> No - none of the projects are the TLP. > as said in the other thread, this assertion is confusing: "none of the > projects are the Top Level Project" On reflection, I think I was wrong about that. The TLP is the original project which the PMC was created to manage. >> The TLP / PMC is not the same as any of its projects. >> >> Most PMCs happen to have the same name as one of their projects, but >> they are distinct entities. >> >> To take the Ant example, there needs to be an Ant PMC/TLP page and a >> separate Ant project page. >> These should be linked somehow. >> >> > and I should rename tlps.json to committees.json (and update code >> > accordingly) >> No need. > given this problem with "a TLP is not a project", I think using committee or > PMC would avoid confusion > >> >> > then on https://projects-new.apache.org/ , do we really want to graph TLPs >> > evolution or committees? >> >> No idea > ok, for a later discussion :) > >> >> > I suppose commons can be called a TLP, even if it does not have any "main" >> > project that is the effective TLP >> >> Yes, Commons is a TLP/PMC. Scratch that: Commons is a PMC; there is no real Commons TLP. >> >> I don't think it's helpful to think of PMCs having a "main" project. >> >> PMCs have one or more projects; each project has a single PMC. >> >> > comdev is not really a TLP: should probably not be listed in projects >> > list, >> > but as "special committee not producing projects"? >> >> Well, it is responsible for this mailing list and is probably >> responsible for the projects.a.o website. >> >> > is Labs a TLP? or like comdev? >> >> What does committee-info.txt say? > these are normal committees > but form a software perspective, they're not expected to produce any project > AFAIK, that's why I think they are special regarding the other 161 PMC that > are meant to produce projects > >> >> > I suppose we can hard-code the list of committees that are not expected to >> > have projects, the list should not change often: Labs and comdev seem to >> > be >> > the only 2 (that extend special committees from 5 to 7) >> > >> > and finally, in https://projects-new.apache.org/ >> > change "163 top level software projects >> > 107 sub-projects" to "270 projects managed by 163 committees" (or 161 if >> > labs and comdev are special committees) >> > >> > >> > this seems to make sense >> > if no objection, I'll code it >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Hervé >> > >> >> > I chose Commons, but it could have been HttpComponents or Logging >> >> > Services, or Lucene (Lucene have been very clear that there is a >> >> > "Lucene >> >> > core" sub- project), Web Services, Axis, Xalan, Xerces, XML Graphics, >> >> > Attic, Creadur, DB, jUDDI, Tcl >> >> > >> >> > I chose Ant, but it could have been Velocity, MINA, Directory, HTTP >> >> > Server, >> >> > MyFaces, Tomcat >> >> > >> >> >> - (future) UI additions for *other* places. It would be awesome, for >> >> >> example, to provide a tiny scriptlet that any project could inject in >> >> >> their website that displays a "see also" menu. That would link to a >> >> >> specific URL on projects.a.o that would say "hey, you came from >> >> >> Cassandra, here are: -other big data projects, -other projects in >> >> >> Java, >> >> >> -other projects with the same committers... etc." as a service. >> >> >> >> >> >> - Shane >> >> > >> >> > I'll continue tonight on this >> >> > Any help appreciated >> >> > >> >> > Regards, >> >> > >> >> > Hervé >
