Thank you so much, Daniel for your kind words. I am grateful to you! :-) Kindly have look at my response inline.
On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 6:23 PM Daniel Ruggeri <drugg...@primary.net> wrote: > > > > On December 4, 2019 11:31:17 PM CST, Swapnil M Mane <swapnilmm...@apache.org> > wrote: > >Thank you all for your constant support and guidance in the ALC [1] > >initiative. > > > >Thank you so much Rich, Daniel, Issac, Shane, and David for spending > >time and energy to share your > >thoughts, we highly appreciate it. All the points you mentioned are > >very important. > > > >Dear team, > >I would like to discuss with you on three critical points (raised by > >Rich), here is the reference to mail threads ( > >https://s.apache.org/6hfel , https://s.apache.org/wr6ah ) > > I am delighted to see the constructive response to the concerns! > > > > >1. Process of forming ALC Chapter. > >2. How we make sure that we are not having people use the Apache name > >to promote messages that are not *our* message. > >3. Rules and regulations for ALC Chapter. > > > >I am having some proposals to address these issues and need your kind > >help in validating and improving it. All the below are just my > >thoughts and I need your kind inputs and approval on this. > > > >## 1. Process of forming ALC Chapter. > > > >Currently, we have process to establish an ALC is, simply send mail on > >ComDev list as mentioned at https://s.apache.org/apply-to-setup-alc > > > >Should we add the following clauses to it? > > I observe one thing missing from the document: WHO (a named individual or > role) is responsible for ensuring: > - The quarterly report is filed > - Pre-event materials are reviewed > - ComDev PMC knows to whom to reach out to for $reasons > > I ask this because volunteer time and energy comes and goes, so identifying > some/all of the responsible people for these things is important. This is > similar to a role in Conferences where each event (Roadshow/ApacheCon) has a > chair that bears the ultimate responsibility for the event. Of course, that > individual enlists the help of one or many additional partners to make the > event happen. > > Perfect catch! I will be glad to take the responsibility of the items you mentioned (if the community is fine with this :) Just a thought, we should define a role for this because in the future, we will grow, and if we have one specific individual for this work, we will have a dependency on that particular person. Instead, we should define a role, and as I said, I will be glad to take this role after the approval of the community. And in the future, if we feel someone other should take this responsibility and be in this role, it will be easy for us to have migration (like we sometimes do for project chair). [While writing this mail, received the mail from Roman https://s.apache.org/4218l on the official sub-project approach. I think this could help us in addressing the above-mentioned points.] For the pre-event materials review point, the person in X role (with the help ComDev PMC) can review and approve the pre-event materials. > > > >-- Instead of sending mail on dev@community.apache.org, the mail > >should be sent to ComDev PMC at priv...@community.apache.org > >-- To form an ALC, there should be at least 2 committers or 1 ASF > >member. > > I agree with Mark elsethread. IMO, this should follow the Roadshow > requirement of having at least one foundation member. Though, I differ a bit > in opinion... I don't think even having two PMC members from two separate > organizations is sufficient enough. Messaging is hard to get right and there > is often nuance required to identify bad actors seeking to be badder and good > actors making an honest error. > > Where I also agree is that I'm willing to consider case-by-case basis for an > ALC chapter that is mentored by a member. My reasoning here is that if ComDev > PMC has reviewed the content AND a member is involved a bit more through the > process, we likely have enough oversight to protect the Foundation while > enabling the energetic volunteers (who are likely on a path to membership > themselves!) > > So this doesn't appear to be a case of "seagull management", I volunteer to > mentor the first ALC proposal that lacks the member requirement. I want to > see this happen! > Thank you for the inspiring words! @Team, Many of the issues mentioned in the initial thread are almost getting sorted, only we all are having variable opinions on should ALC Chapter have alteast 1 ASF member or 2 PMC members or 2 Committers, etc. etc. I tried to incorporate all the suggestions and prepared https://s.apache.org/establish-alc-chapter document. (Please refer point 1.2 with additional notes) I like the idea of Rich, for now, we can make it mandatory to have at least 1 ASF member. And after six months (June 2020), we can re-evaluate it. I added this statement with *two clauses* (based on inputs from the community): # 1 If a proposed ALC Chapter is not having any ASF member on a case-by-case basis ComDev PMC may assign a mentor (who will be an ASF member) to the proposed ALC Chapter and establish it. # 2 The condition of having at least 1 ASF member can be revisited in next six month (June 2020), because till that time, we as a community will have more experience on how ALC Chapters are performing, what the scope of improvements, what we are doing fantastic, based on this, we will revisit this clause. > >-- The ComDev PMC will look into each request and then took > >the decision on forming the ALC Chapter. > >-- Also as Rich suggests above, we can also assign one mentor to guide > >ALC. > >(Thank you @Issac & @David for sharing your thoughts on this point). > > > > > >## 2. How we make sure that we are not having people use the Apache > >name > >to promote messages that are not *our* message. > > > >*Very critical & important point!* > >The ALC Indore [2] team was fortunate that we have 4 Committers, 2 PMC > >members and the rest members are very active contributors to various > >Apache Projects, so we feel the Apache within us. > > > >But it may/will not be the case with the new ALC Chapter, so here are > >some solutions to address this issue. > > > >-- We worked on preparing some guidelines for ALC Chapter to execute > >the event, https://s.apache.org/alc-guidelines > >(I need your kind help in reviewing it.) > >This could help us in keeping track of actions taken by ALC and > >approving the event before executing it. > > > >@Daniel, this is exactly like you proposed, thoughts travel! :-) > > > >-- If we will have at least 2 committers of 1 ASF member than the > >chances of misuse of our name will be reduced. > > > >-- We can make a list of the FAQs by the audience, and document it so > >that every ALC chapter will have the answer to frequently asked > >questions by the audience. > > > >-- We are documenting various information at > >https://s.apache.org/ALC-Resources , this will also give the idea to > >ALC Chapter what types of events and content they can present to the > >audience. > > > >## 3. Rule and regulation for ALC Chapter > > > >Although we should not have a hard list of rules and regulation but we > >should have some rules, that will help us in managing the ALC > >initiative because with time we will grow like currently there is 900+ > >Google Developer Group [3] and 120+ Facebook Developer Circle [4] > >present. > >So, to manage and scale the ALC initiative, we should have some > >rules/guidelines we prepared. Here are these rules/guidelines. > > > >-- There will be a single ALC chapter per town/city. > > > >-- The ALC members should follow the Apache code of conduct, > >https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html > > > >-- It’s strictly prohibited to use ALC Chapter for profit or promoting > >any company or personal agenda. > > > >-- If any ALC Chapter is inactive for 3 months, it will be dissolved > >after communication with members of that ALC chapter because we are > >having strictly one ALC chapter in a town/city. > > What is the process by which an ALC chapter is established and dissolved? I > ask not for process sake, but where do people go to find the current list of > local chapters? While the questions about protection and process are > important, discoverability is important, too, to grow the community. > Thanks for raising this point. I have documented respective process. @Team, please feel free to share your inputs on these documents. 1. Process to establish an ALC Chapter - https://s.apache.org/establish-alc-chapter 2. Process to dissolve an ALC Chapter - https://s.apache.org/dissolve-alc-chapter 3. People can find the current list of local chapters at - https://s.apache.org/alc-chapters > > > >-- The ALC Chapter shares the status report (e.g. ALC Indore reports - > >https://s.apache.org/alc-indore-reports) to ComDev in every three > >months. > >The report includes details on the activities performed by ALC Chapter > >and it's impact. > >Here is the index page for reports from each ALC > >https://s.apache.org/alc-reports > >And the report prepared by ALC Indore for their > >August to October 2019 activities is > >https://s.apache.org/alc-indore-report-aug-oct-2019 > > I like this :-) > > > > >-- Each Chapter should follow ALC Guideline (as mentioned, need your > >help in reviewing it) https://s.apache.org/alc-guidelines to execute > >any event. > > It was a wise consideration to include an after-event "postmortem" in the > guidelines. There will be lessons learned that need to be captured if a > chapter (and other chapters) don't want to repeat errors. > > > > >-- Also as @Shane mentioned, we can also use some of the concepts and > >rationale mentioned at > >https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events > >(Below is the statement from our Event Branding Policy we have already > >included as suggested by from Joan previously) > >======= > >The use of Apache marks in any events run by third parties must be > >approved by VP, Brand Management or the VP of the relevant Apache > >project > >======= > >Shane, this point was raised by Joan Touzet in September > >https://s.apache.org/95wu0 , so we had a discussion on this and > >followed this process and included it in > >https://s.apache.org/alc-guidelines > >As you said, if needed we can add more points from > >https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events > > > > > >I feel very proud to be the part of the Apache family and in the past 6 > >years every day, the ASF people inspired me to do better. And the > >great things we are doing together surprise me regularly. > >Thank you much for your love and support! > > Thank YOU for putting the effort into making it happen and into addressing > concerns! > > > > >Please feel free to share your comments and thoughts. > > > >[1] https://s.apache.org/alc > >[2] https://s.apache.org/alc-indore > >[3] https://developers.google.com/programs/community/gdg/ > >[4] https://developers.facebook.com/developercircles/ > > > > > >Best regards, > >Swapnil M Mane, > >www.apache.org > > > > > >On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 4:53 AM David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:15 PM Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > I've made two posts on this list in the past couple of days > >regarding > >> > the rising ACL effort and my concerns about it. > >> > > >> > I *desperately* want this kind of grass-roots enthusiast community > >> > effort. I do NOT want to kill it. But I've learned from Fedora user > >> > groups that allowing any random stranger to start up a group, using > >our > >> > Trademarks, to promote whatever message comes into their head, is > >> > *going* to bite us in the butt, sooner rather than later. > >> > > >> > >> I haven't been involved with Fedora in a long while, but there were > >in > >> early days a real struggle for how to control messaging and who could > >> speak for Fedora, and how events could be handled, etc. Did the > >> community own it or did Red Hat? > >> > >> Fedora had (at least back then) a relatively scalable and > >> self-policing group called the "Ambassadors" that leveraged messaging > >> and collateral provided by the Fedora Marketing Project to talk about > >> Fedora in a unified fashion. There were requirements about prior > >> activity and some barrier to entry to become an Ambassador, but it > >> belonging to that group seems somewhat analogous to membership at the > >> ASF (you had to have been involved in some other aspect of Fedora, > >you > >> had to demonstrate some knowledge of Fedora's principles, etc) > >> > >> So perhaps being 'sponsored' or 'championed' by a member is the > >> threshold for running an event. Any problems that arise can be > >> policed from there because we know there's a member we can talk to. > >> > >> YMMV - I have no idea the current state of the Ambassador program at > >> Fedora and whether it's considered a success of failure. > >> > >> --David > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >> > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
