Steven, of course, that is what I meant. Did you ever finish that review of my PhonegGap book? ;-) the next one will be out in a few weeks (hopefully).
John M. Wargo > On Oct 18, 2013, at 2:29 PM, "Steven Gill" <stevengil...@gmail.com> wrote: > > John: If you decided to take a stab a blogging about it, please think about > blogging on the cordova site! We can all review it before publishing it too! > > Erik: that video was awesome! Let me know when Gorkem does a release and I > can post it on the cordova twitter feed. > > Michal: Could just be CLI vs Plugman workflow > > >> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Michal Mocny <mmo...@chromium.org> wrote: >> >> I wonder if we should not work out better names for the two workflows. >> Both are kinda command-line-based so saying "CLI" vs "old" is confusing. >> As is saying "the bin/ script flow" confusing. Not sure if "multi" vs >> "single" platform flow is any better, since you can use both flows for one >> or more platforms. >> >> Anyway, if we have more obvious/catchy names, then we can be more clear in >> our communications which flow our answers are relevant to. i.e., "use >> plugman to ... (only for ___ flow)". i.e., "Be carefully when editing in >> IDE ... (only for ___ flow)". >> >> -Michal >> >> >>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 1:14 PM, Anis KADRI <anis.ka...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Erik that's great! Where can we download it? >>>> On Oct 18, 2013 8:01 AM, "Andrew Grieve" <agri...@chromium.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Awesome video!! >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 3:43 AM, Erik Jan de Wit <ede...@redhat.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On the topic of IDE support my collage Gorkem has made a nice wizard >> in >>>>> eclipse that mimics the CLI have a look at this video >>>>> >>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUyUUtmTYok >>>>> >>>>>> On 18 Oct,2013, at 4:29 , Maxime LUCE <max...@somatic.fr> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Great Bryan >>>>>> Totally agree !!! >>>>>> >>>>>> Cordialement. >>>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>>> Maxime LUCE - Somatic >>>>>> maxime.l...@somatic.fr >>>>>> 06 28 60 72 34 >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> De : Brian LeRoux<mailto:b...@brian.io> >>>>>> Envoyé : 18/10/2013 01:48 >>>>>> À : dev@cordova.apache.org<mailto:dev@cordova.apache.org> >>>>>> Objet : Re: config.xml discussion, we need to talk >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't really appreciate comments that we don't talk to our users, >>> or >>>>> build apps in anger. Neither of those assertions are true. The >> origins >>> of >>>>> these initiatives are based on both community feedback, and direct >>>>> experience. >>>>>> >>>>>> Keeping your focus on just pure platform side of a project is fine, >>> of >>>>> course, since the CLI delegates to the platform. This was also a >>>> deliberate >>>>> learning from MANY attempts at an architecture that satisfies both >>>>> approaches. It separates the concerns and respects the platform will >> be >>>>> canonical for the common workflows supported. This is a very real >>> example >>>>> of Conway's Law btw. [1] >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyhow. Deep breath! Software has bugs, people will report them, >> and >>>>> we'll continue to improve. This is a very large group with a very >>> diverse >>>>> community that spans regular old hackers to the humble web designers. >>> We >>>>> need to respect that, and maybe be a little more compassionate to >> each >>>>> other too. All software is fucked up, and at the end of the day, it >> is >>>> our >>>>> perpetual job to make it a little less fucked up. >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway's_law >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> [Inline image 1] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Tommy Williams < >> to...@devgeeks.org >>>>> <mailto:to...@devgeeks.org>> wrote: >>>>>> Late to the party due to timezone fun, but I just want to chime in >> in >>>>>> support of the CLI. >>>>>> >>>>>> As a dev working on an actual nontrivial "real world" app, I would >>> like >>>>> to >>>>>> let it be known that we (SpiderOak) have been heavy drinkers of the >>> CLI >>>>>> Kool-Aid since its infancy. >>>>>> >>>>>> We have even managed to get to the point where ./platforms/**/* is >>>> just a >>>>>> build artefact (mostly by using hooks and tying the whole thing >>>> together >>>>>> with Grunt). >>>>>> >>>>>> We have a fast and fairly complex app (both many core plugins as >> well >>>>> and a >>>>>> few custom/third party ones), that even includes the ability to >> white >>>>> label >>>>>> it with relative ease. >>>>>> >>>>>> I feel pretty strongly in favour of the CLI and strongly advocate >> its >>>> use >>>>>> when asked in the #phonegap IRC channel. >>>>>> >>>>>> Just my opinion, but thought it was important to add to the >>> discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> - tommy / devgeeks >>>>>>> On 18 Oct 2013 04:44, "Anis KADRI" <anis.ka...@gmail.com<mailto: >>>>>> anis.ka...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sweet. So I think we all agree (expect Joe perhaps?) that both >>>>>>> approaches should be supported :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:31 AM, Carlos Santana < >>>> csantan...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:csantan...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> I meant in addition of ".cordova/lib" also allow also to do >>> something >>>>>>> like >>>>>>>> "cordova platform add ios >> --path="./cordova_components/cordova-ios" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Carlos Santana < >>>> csantan...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:csantan...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ++1 "to install from a given directory instead of >> .cordova/libs." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Viras < >>>> vi...@users.sourceforge.net >>>>> <mailto:vi...@users.sourceforge.net> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This might be true - it took me quite some time to figure out >> how >>>> the >>>>>>> CLI >>>>>>>>>> actually works - despite also having to fix one or two bugs for >>> the >>>>> WPX >>>>>>>>>> implementation of the CLI code (as well as the Windows 8 CLI >>> code). >>>>> But >>>>>>>>>> still I would hate to see the CLI go, since I think once you >> are >>>> used >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> it, it saves you quite a lot of time (I still have those old >>>>> documents >>>>>>>>>> which guide me through the setup of the IDE projects for the >>>>> different >>>>>>>>>> platforms - which is now mostly obsolete). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So I guess supporting both methods is the way to go... :) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>> Wolfgang >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Am 2013-10-17 16:13, schrieb Michal Mocny: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much for chiming in, I'm very happy to see that >> you've >>>>>>> figured >>>>>>>>>>> out how to leverage the benefits and avoid the drawbacks of >> the >>>> new >>>>>>>>>>> workflow, and that it has led to increased productivity for >> you. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I do think that perhaps it is still too difficult for every >>>>> developer >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> learn what you already have. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -Michal >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 12:13 AM, Viras < >>>>> vi...@users.sourceforge.net<mailto:vi...@users.sourceforge.net>> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> my view on this discussion: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I've used the CLI to release the latest version of GOFG >> Sports >>>>>>> Computer >>>>>>>>>>>> for Windows Phone. The support for the "merges" directory is >> a >>>>>>> fantastic >>>>>>>>>>>> feature which allows me to focus on the javascript code using >>>> e.g. >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> NetBeans IDE - I can finally handle all my platform specific >>> code >>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>> JavaScript in one consistent directory structure - which is >>> what >>>>>>> Cordova >>>>>>>>>>>> should be about. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In addition the CLI forces you to write clean code (not >>> implying >>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> other method forces to write messy code). If you need >> something >>>>>>> native >>>>>>>>>>>> write a clean plugin for it (which also makes the code >>> reusable) >>>> - >>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>>>>> to mess around in the native projects code - this also makes >>>>>>> upgrading >>>>>>>>>>>> cordova much easier. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Once I've done the Windows Phone version I've simply added >>>> Android >>>>>>> as a >>>>>>>>>>>> platform, build it and I was done - no need for fiddling >> around >>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>> SDK / >>>>>>>>>>>> IDE setup etc (besides actually installing it). So CLI is my >>>>> favorite >>>>>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>>> to develop now - and it is far more powerful than the old >>>> approach >>>>>>> (in >>>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>>> opinion) - since it saves you from fiddling around with >> project >>>>>>>>>>>> settings, >>>>>>>>>>>> etc. when you do a multi-platform release. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Oh yes - and GOFG SC uses two custom plugins, 5 official >>> plugins >>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>> cordova 3.0 - so it is a bit beyond the "Hello World" >>>>> application.... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And I do not agree that it isn't possible to work with the >>> native >>>>>>> IDEs >>>>>>>>>>>> with their own projects - this is simply wrong since you can >>>> always >>>>>>> go >>>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>>> the "platforms" directory and open the platform-projects >> using >>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>> native >>>>>>>>>>>> IDE from there (I've done this myself for e.g. plugin >>>> development). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Still I agree that both versions should be supported - but >>> don't >>>>> make >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> assumption that the CLI is for "n00bs" only! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>>>>>>> Wolfgang >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Am 2013-10-16 23:11, schrieb Joe Bowser: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Michal Mocny < >>>> mmo...@chromium.org >>>>> <mailto:mmo...@chromium.org>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Anis: Totally agrees, but its important to highlight that >> both >>>>>>>>>>>>>> directions >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for that arguments hold. We've done our best to support >> bin/ >>>>>>> scripts >>>>>>>>>>>>>> post >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.0, yet blanket statements like "CLI should not be used >> with >>>>>>> IDE", or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "CLI >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sucks unless you just doing something trivial" are being >>> thrown >>>>>>>>>>>>>> around, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which are harmful in my opinion, and I don't think its fair >>>> that >>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> us >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are promoting that message to users. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think we're communicating with our users at all, >> so I >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> see how this could be communicated. When users communicate >>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>> frustrations, it's usually something like this >>>>>>>>>>>>> (http://www.infil00p.org/****config-xml-changes-for-ios-**< >>>>>>> http://www.infil00p.org/**config-xml-changes-for-ios-**> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and-android/#comment-10731<htt**p:// >>> www.infil00p.org/config-**< >>>>> http://www.infil00p.org/config-**> >>>>>>>>>>>>> xml-changes-for-ios-and-**android/#comment-10731< >> http://www.infil00p.org/config-xml-changes-for-ios-and-android/#comment-10731 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ) >>>>>>>>>>>>> and this >>>>>>>>>>>>> ( >>> http://www.infil00p.org/****introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-**** >>>> < >>>>>>> http://www.infil00p.org/**introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-**> >>>>>>>>>>>>> android/#comment-10694<http://** >>> www.infil00p.org/introducing-** >>>> < >>>>> http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-**> >>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#**comment-10694< >> http://www.infil00p.org/introducing-cordova-3-0-0-for-android/#comment-10694 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> CLI works well for me, and while its not perfect, I strive >> to >>>>> learn >>>>>>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> limitations and make it better, not condemn it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I avoid it because it's not developed for me, or developers >>> like >>>>> me >>>>>>>>>>>>> who like to see a big pile of output when things fail. I >>>> avoided >>>>>>>>>>>>> having any part in its development because I thought it was >>> the >>>>>>> wrong >>>>>>>>>>>>> way to do things. I assumed that the majority of users >>> actually >>>>>>>>>>>>> wanted this and that I should do my best to work around >> this, >>>> but >>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the backlash that we're getting, such as the blog posts and >>> some >>>>>>>>>>>>> comments on the Google Groups, it seems that this is a >> feature >>>>> very >>>>>>>>>>>>> few people actually wanted. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as the CordovaWebView use case, I actually have never >>>> tried >>>>>>>>>>>>> that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone bothered to make sure it works well post-3.0, or >>>> does >>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a point that we missed addressing this? >>>>>>>>>>>>> We have JUnit unit tests in the Android repository to make >>> sure >>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>> this still works. However, I would like to see this test >> case >>>>>>>>>>>>> revisited since it may be more appropriate to have >>>> CordovaActivity >>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>>>> inherited instead of CordovaInterface, or for both to be >>>>> supported. >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is so that we can make more hybrid applications and >> deal >>>> with >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> fact that we're so brutally non-complaint with Android UI >>>>> guidelines >>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of just ignoring it. I'll probably bring this up >> and >>>>>>> present >>>>>>>>>>>>> more source code when it's ready to explain why we need this >>>>> feature >>>>>>>>>>>>> in the next couple of weeks, and why it's important to >> respect >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> platform, even when the platform doesn't respect the web. >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> GOFG - Get On Fat Guy >>>>>>>>>> http://www.gofg.at/ - powered by Cordova >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Carlos Santana >>>>>>>>> <csantan...@gmail.com<mailto:csantan...@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Carlos Santana >>>>>>>> <csantan...@gmail.com<mailto:csantan...@gmail.com>> >>
