FWIW (wearing my PMC hat) I would prefer 2 emails: 1. to committers@ with the survey 2. to private@ suggesting to distribute to dev@ and user@. This mail could perhaps make a very brief reasoning for why it is important for ASF and the PMC.
Kenn On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 10:38 AM Griselda Cuevas <[email protected]> wrote: > Good point Matt, I'd like to cross things and would prefer to keep each > email with a single CTA (call to action). I'll take a pass to see if I can > accomplish two in one. > > On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 13:28, Matt Sicker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Emailing committers@ with a note in the email to ask PMCs to pass > > along the survey to their own communities would get it all done in one > > email. > > > > On Tue, 29 Oct 2019 at 11:49, Patricia Shanahan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > If I am going to get more than one e-mail that is essentially on the > > > same subject, I would greatly prefer them to be completely and > obviously > > > identical. That way, I can quickly trash all except one, and tell > > > Thunderbird they are junk so I won't see any that show up later. > > > > > > If you space them out and vary them enough that Thunderbird does not > > > recognize them as duplicates of the first message they will waste more > > > of my time. If I were not already interested in diversity, that would > > > make me less likely to complete the survey. > > > > > > > > > On 10/29/2019 9:10 AM, Gris Cuevas wrote: > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > > > We are just planning to send two emails, one to committers@ and one > > to members@ with a link to the survey. I will write these emails to be > > different so it doesn't feel like a repetition. I will also space them, > so > > people who receive both see the second one as a reminder, and not spam. > > > > > > > > In these emails I will ask PMCs to voluntarily share the link of the > > survey in their user@ and dev@ lists if they wish. > > > > > > > > I'm also going to ask to some projects for support directly. > > > > > > > > The key here is that the messages will be different and spaced, so > > they serve as reminders and don't feel spammy. > > > > > > > > G > > > > > > > > On 2019/10/29 11:03:52, "Kevin A. McGrail" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Definitely should not be sending to private emails. > > > >> > > > >> What we need is to simply use survey software and load in all > > apache.org > > > >> email addresses from an export. > > > >> > > > >> This is an official ASF project and as such is not spam. Then email > > > >> directly. No use of lists at all. > > > >> > > > >> And ask all pmcs to promote it and request others who are not > formally > > > >> committers to submit. > > > >> > > > >> Regards, KAM > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Oct 29, 2019, 03:03 Daniel Gruno <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> I would favor sending emails to the various dev@ and users@ lists > > over > > > >>> trying to gather the private email addresses of people, which is > > quite > > > >>> outside the remit of D&I. Those addresses can be obtained on an > > opt-in > > > >>> basis for later surveys. I'd much rather we live with a couple of > > > >>> duplicated messages for those subscribes to a lot of lists than > using > > > >>> PII we have no right to grab. > > > >>> > > > >>> On 10/29/19 3:51 AM, Kenneth Knowles wrote: > > > >>>> I will show my ignorance of email here... > > > >>>> > > > >>>> When I receive the same email via a collection of mailing lists, > my > > email > > > >>>> client (GMail) deduplicates them and shows me a single message. > > This is > > > >>>> actually a source of confusion when the lists have different > levels > > of > > > >>>> privilege/privacy... > > > >>>> > > > >>>> So if we do a first round to collect which lists PMCs approve and > > then > > > >>> send > > > >>>> a single email to all lists, will that not work? I truly do not > > know the > > > >>>> answer to this question. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I do think we should avoid direct-to-person emails. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Kenn > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 7:25 PM Austin Bennett < > > > >>> [email protected]> > > > >>>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> Patricia, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> That seems a straight forward infra/other issue. Naively, seems > > someone > > > >>>>> could iterate through all the relevant lists and then deduplicate > > emails > > > >>>>> (wouldn't catch all - in instance that you have different email > > > >>> addresses > > > >>>>> in different lists -- but probably would reduce lots of duplicate > > > >>>>> messaging). Though, invites the question if direct messages > might > > get > > > >>>>> caught by spam while messages to specific lists wouldn't. I > would > > be > > > >>> happy > > > >>>>> to do this for the sake of reducing email to many, should it be > > deemed > > > >>> the > > > >>>>> sensible solution and granted the needed access to do so. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Cheers, > > > >>>>> Austin > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2019 at 4:10 PM Patricia Shanahan <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> One danger that I don't know how to solve: In trying to reach as > > many > > > >>>>>> people as possible you will bombard many of us with multiple > > e-mails. I > > > >>>>>> am subscribed to [email protected], members@, committers@, two > > PMC > > > >>>>>> private lists, and the corresponding dev@lists. I'm going to > get > > > >>> about 7 > > > >>>>>> copies, and some people are subscribed to a lot more than 2 > > projects. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On 10/28/2019 3:49 PM, Griselda Cuevas wrote: > > > >>>>>>> Hi folks, > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I'm back from my leave and ramping up on this project. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> First of all, I want to say THANK YOU Katia for stepping in and > > > >>> helping > > > >>>>>>> move the project forward with very little friction. To be a new > > > >>>>>> contributor > > > >>>>>>> to our community you have helped us achieve tremendous > progress. > > Also > > > >>>>>> thank > > > >>>>>>> you Justin for supporting Katia and providing her with advice. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I want to also thank everyone who has contributed with > feedback, > > > >>>>> advice, > > > >>>>>>> revisions and support. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I caught up with Katia and we decided on the following path > > forward: > > > >>>>>>> 1) Draft emails as per Sally's suggestions in this thread > > > >>>>>>> 2) Partner with Sally to send final message with survey to > > members@ & > > > >>>>>>> committers@ > > > >>>>>>> 3) Promote survey in social media and other channels to capture > > > >>>>>>> non-committer participation (draft from ideas shared in this > > thread) > > > >>>>>>> 4) Run survey for 1 month after initial publication > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I will also be following up with the working group and Bitergia > > to > > > >>>>> catch > > > >>>>>> up > > > >>>>>>> with the rest of the project. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Cheers, > > > >>>>>>> G > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2019 at 14:47, Kenneth Knowles <[email protected] > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Not sure if there was followup that makes this email obsolete. > > If so, > > > >>>>>>>> apologies. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Both Justin & Shane have proposed ways for the survey to > reach a > > > >>> wider > > > >>>>>>>> audience than committers@. I think both of their ideas avoid > > any > > > >>>>>>>> unsolicited email. I think expanded reach is very important. > > For the > > > >>>>>>>> survey* results I presented at ApacheCon NA, inclusion of > > > >>>>> non-committers > > > >>>>>>>> was key to many insights. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> What do you think of their ideas? Any other ideas? > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Kenn > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> *survey of people at Google who self-identified as using or > > > >>>>>> contributing to > > > >>>>>>>> ASF projects > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > > >>>>>> https://www.avg.com > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Matt Sicker <[email protected]> > > >
