Hi all, Sorry I think I was not clear enough on my initial e-mail. Let me first clarify two things and later on try to rephrase my initial suggestion.
1. I do not want to count all votes from @apache.org addresses as binding
2. I do not want to discourage people that do not have @apache.org
address from voting
3. What I said does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMCs
What I meant is that if you are a committer/PMC please use an apache.org
address because then the person that summarizes the votes can check in
the apache directory if a person with that address is a committer/PMC in
flink project. Otherwise if a committer uses a different address there
is no way to check if that person is a committer/PMC or not. It does not
mean though that if you vote from apache.org this vote is automatically
binding. It just allows us to check if it is.
To elaborate on Xuefu's example. It's absolutely fine for you to use an
apache address for voting. I will still check if you are a committer or
not. But take me (or any other committer) for example. If I use my
non-apache address for a vote and the person verifying the vote does not
know me and my address, it is not easy for that person to verify if I am
a committer or not.
Also it does not mean that other people are not allowed to vote. You can
vote from other addresses, but those votes will be counted as
non-binding. This does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMC.
However if you are a committer and vote from non apache address your
vote will be non-binding, because we cannot verify you are indeed a
committer (we might don't know your other address).
I agree the additional information (binding, non-binding) in a vote
helps, but it still should be verified. People make mistakes.
I hope this clears it up a bit.
Best,
Dawid
On 04/12/2019 04:58, Dian Fu wrote:
> Thanks Dawid for start this discussion.
>
> I have the same feeling with Xuefu and Jingsong. Besides that, according to
> the bylaws, for some kinds of votes, only the votes from active PMC members
> are binding, such as product release. So an email address doesn't help here.
> Even if a vote is from a Flink committer, it is still non-binding.
>
> Thanks,
> Dian
>
>> 在 2019年12月4日，上午10:37，Jingsong Lee <lzljs3620...@apache.org> 写道：
>>
>> Thanks Dawid for driving this discussion.
>>
>> +1 to Xuefu's viewpoint.
>> I am not a Flink committer, but sometimes I use apache email address to
>> send email.
>>
>> Another way is that we require the binding ticket to must contain "binding".
>> Otherwise it must be a "non-binding" ticket.
>> In this way, we can let lazy people continue voting without any suffix too.
>>
>> Best,
>> Jingsong Lee
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:58 AM Xuefu Z <usxu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Dawid,
>>>
>>> Thanks for initiating this discussion. I understand the problem you
>>> described, but the solution might not work as having an apache.org email
>>> address doesn't necessary mean it's from a Flink committer. This certainly
>>> applies to me.
>>>
>>> It probably helps for the voters to identify themselves by specifying
>>> either "binding" or "non-binding", though I understand this cannot be
>>> enforced but serves a general guideline.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Xuefu
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 6:15 AM Dawid Wysakowicz <dwysakow...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to reach out primarily to the Flink's committers. I think
>>>> whenever we cast a vote on a proposal, is it a FLIP, release candidate
>>>> or any other proposal, we should use our apache.org email address.
>>>>
>>>> It is not an easy task to check if a person voting is a committer/PMC if
>>>> we do not work with him/her on a daily basis. This is important for
>>>> verifying if a vote is binding or not.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> Dawid
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Xuefu Zhang
>>>
>>> "In Honey We Trust!"
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Best, Jingsong Lee
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