I'm +1 on this proposal. Regarding to the case that Dian mentioned, we can reminder the committer/PMC to vote again use the apache email, and of course the non-apache vote is counted as non-binding.
Best, Jark On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Dawid Wysakowicz <dwysakow...@apache.org> wrote: > Hi Dian, > > I don't want to be very strict, but I think it should be counted as > non-binding, if it comes from non apache address, yes. > > Anybody should be able to verify a vote. Moreover I think this the only > way to "encourage" all committers to use their apache addresses ;) > > Best, > > Dawid > > On 04/12/2019 10:26, Dian Fu wrote: > > Thanks for your explanation Dawid! It makes sense to me now. +1. > > > > Just one minor question: Does this mean that if a committer/PMC > accidentally votes using the non apache email, even if the person who > summarizes the votes clearly KNOWS who he/she is, that vote will still be > counted as non-binding? > > > > Regards, > > Dian > > > >> 在 2019年12月4日，下午5:13，Aljoscha Krettek <aljos...@apache.org> 写道： > >> > >> Very sensible! +1 > >> > >>> On 4. Dec 2019, at 10:02, Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> I believe this to be a sensible approach by Dawid; +1. > >>> > >>> On 04/12/2019 09:04, Dawid Wysakowicz wrote: > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> Sorry I think I was not clear enough on my initial e-mail. Let me > first clarify two things and later on try to rephrase my initial suggestion. > >>>> > >>>> 1. I do not want to count all votes from @apache.org addresses as > binding > >>>> 2. I do not want to discourage people that do not have @apache.org > >>>> address from voting > >>>> 3. What I said does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMCs > >>>> > >>>> What I meant is that if you are a committer/PMC please use an > apache.org address because then the person that summarizes the votes can > check in the apache directory if a person with that address is a > committer/PMC in flink project. Otherwise if a committer uses a different > address there is no way to check if that person is a committer/PMC or not. > It does not mean though that if you vote from apache.org this vote is > automatically binding. It just allows us to check if it is. > >>>> > >>>> To elaborate on Xuefu's example. It's absolutely fine for you to use > an apache address for voting. I will still check if you are a committer or > not. But take me (or any other committer) for example. If I use my > non-apache address for a vote and the person verifying the vote does not > know me and my address, it is not easy for that person to verify if I am a > committer or not. > >>>> > >>>> Also it does not mean that other people are not allowed to vote. You > can vote from other addresses, but those votes will be counted as > non-binding. This does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMC. > However if you are a committer and vote from non apache address your vote > will be non-binding, because we cannot verify you are indeed a committer > (we might don't know your other address). > >>>> > >>>> I agree the additional information (binding, non-binding) in a vote > helps, but it still should be verified. People make mistakes. > >>>> > >>>> I hope this clears it up a bit. > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> > >>>> Dawid > >>>> > >>>> On 04/12/2019 04:58, Dian Fu wrote: > >>>>> Thanks Dawid for start this discussion. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have the same feeling with Xuefu and Jingsong. Besides that, > according to the bylaws, for some kinds of votes, only the votes from > active PMC members are binding, such as product release. So an email > address doesn't help here. Even if a vote is from a Flink committer, it is > still non-binding. > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> Dian > >>>>> > >>>>>> 在 2019年12月4日，上午10:37，Jingsong Lee<lzljs3620...@apache.org> 写道： > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks Dawid for driving this discussion. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> +1 to Xuefu's viewpoint. > >>>>>> I am not a Flink committer, but sometimes I use apache email > address to > >>>>>> send email. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Another way is that we require the binding ticket to must contain > "binding". > >>>>>> Otherwise it must be a "non-binding" ticket. > >>>>>> In this way, we can let lazy people continue voting without any > suffix too. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Best, > >>>>>> Jingsong Lee > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:58 AM Xuefu Z<usxu...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi Dawid, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks for initiating this discussion. I understand the problem you > >>>>>>> described, but the solution might not work as having an apache.org > email > >>>>>>> address doesn't necessary mean it's from a Flink committer. This > certainly > >>>>>>> applies to me. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It probably helps for the voters to identify themselves by > specifying > >>>>>>> either "binding" or "non-binding", though I understand this cannot > be > >>>>>>> enforced but serves a general guideline. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>> Xuefu > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 6:15 AM Dawid Wysakowicz< > dwysakow...@apache.org> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I wanted to reach out primarily to the Flink's committers. I think > >>>>>>>> whenever we cast a vote on a proposal, is it a FLIP, release > candidate > >>>>>>>> or any other proposal, we should use our apache.org email > address. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> It is not an easy task to check if a person voting is a > committer/PMC if > >>>>>>>> we do not work with him/her on a daily basis. This is important > for > >>>>>>>> verifying if a vote is binding or not. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Dawid > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Xuefu Zhang > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> "In Honey We Trust!" > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Best, Jingsong Lee > >>> > >
