Thanks for your explanation Dawid! It makes sense to me now. +1. Just one minor question: Does this mean that if a committer/PMC accidentally votes using the non apache email, even if the person who summarizes the votes clearly KNOWS who he/she is, that vote will still be counted as non-binding?
Regards, Dian > 在 2019年12月4日，下午5:13，Aljoscha Krettek <aljos...@apache.org> 写道： > > Very sensible! +1 > >> On 4. Dec 2019, at 10:02, Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> I believe this to be a sensible approach by Dawid; +1. >> >> On 04/12/2019 09:04, Dawid Wysakowicz wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Sorry I think I was not clear enough on my initial e-mail. Let me first >>> clarify two things and later on try to rephrase my initial suggestion. >>> >>> 1. I do not want to count all votes from @apache.org addresses as binding >>> 2. I do not want to discourage people that do not have @apache.org >>> address from voting >>> 3. What I said does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMCs >>> >>> What I meant is that if you are a committer/PMC please use an apache.org >>> address because then the person that summarizes the votes can check in the >>> apache directory if a person with that address is a committer/PMC in flink >>> project. Otherwise if a committer uses a different address there is no way >>> to check if that person is a committer/PMC or not. It does not mean though >>> that if you vote from apache.org this vote is automatically binding. It >>> just allows us to check if it is. >>> >>> To elaborate on Xuefu's example. It's absolutely fine for you to use an >>> apache address for voting. I will still check if you are a committer or >>> not. But take me (or any other committer) for example. If I use my >>> non-apache address for a vote and the person verifying the vote does not >>> know me and my address, it is not easy for that person to verify if I am a >>> committer or not. >>> >>> Also it does not mean that other people are not allowed to vote. You can >>> vote from other addresses, but those votes will be counted as non-binding. >>> This does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMC. However if you >>> are a committer and vote from non apache address your vote will be >>> non-binding, because we cannot verify you are indeed a committer (we might >>> don't know your other address). >>> >>> I agree the additional information (binding, non-binding) in a vote helps, >>> but it still should be verified. People make mistakes. >>> >>> I hope this clears it up a bit. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Dawid >>> >>> On 04/12/2019 04:58, Dian Fu wrote: >>>> Thanks Dawid for start this discussion. >>>> >>>> I have the same feeling with Xuefu and Jingsong. Besides that, according >>>> to the bylaws, for some kinds of votes, only the votes from active PMC >>>> members are binding, such as product release. So an email address doesn't >>>> help here. Even if a vote is from a Flink committer, it is still >>>> non-binding. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Dian >>>> >>>>> 在 2019年12月4日，上午10:37，Jingsong Lee<lzljs3620...@apache.org> 写道： >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Dawid for driving this discussion. >>>>> >>>>> +1 to Xuefu's viewpoint. >>>>> I am not a Flink committer, but sometimes I use apache email address to >>>>> send email. >>>>> >>>>> Another way is that we require the binding ticket to must contain >>>>> "binding". >>>>> Otherwise it must be a "non-binding" ticket. >>>>> In this way, we can let lazy people continue voting without any suffix >>>>> too. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Jingsong Lee >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:58 AM Xuefu Z<usxu...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Dawid, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for initiating this discussion. I understand the problem you >>>>>> described, but the solution might not work as having an apache.org email >>>>>> address doesn't necessary mean it's from a Flink committer. This >>>>>> certainly >>>>>> applies to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> It probably helps for the voters to identify themselves by specifying >>>>>> either "binding" or "non-binding", though I understand this cannot be >>>>>> enforced but serves a general guideline. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Xuefu >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 6:15 AM Dawid Wysakowicz<dwysakow...@apache.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I wanted to reach out primarily to the Flink's committers. I think >>>>>>> whenever we cast a vote on a proposal, is it a FLIP, release candidate >>>>>>> or any other proposal, we should use our apache.org email address. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It is not an easy task to check if a person voting is a committer/PMC if >>>>>>> we do not work with him/her on a daily basis. This is important for >>>>>>> verifying if a vote is binding or not. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dawid >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Xuefu Zhang >>>>>> >>>>>> "In Honey We Trust!" >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Best, Jingsong Lee >> >> >
