+1 (from my apache email ;-)) Best, Kurt
On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 7:22 PM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm +1 on this proposal. > > Regarding to the case that Dian mentioned, we can reminder the > committer/PMC to vote again use the apache email, > and of course the non-apache vote is counted as non-binding. > > Best, > Jark > > On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Dawid Wysakowicz <dwysakow...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > Hi Dian, > > > > I don't want to be very strict, but I think it should be counted as > > non-binding, if it comes from non apache address, yes. > > > > Anybody should be able to verify a vote. Moreover I think this the only > > way to "encourage" all committers to use their apache addresses ;) > > > > Best, > > > > Dawid > > > > On 04/12/2019 10:26, Dian Fu wrote: > > > Thanks for your explanation Dawid! It makes sense to me now. +1. > > > > > > Just one minor question: Does this mean that if a committer/PMC > > accidentally votes using the non apache email, even if the person who > > summarizes the votes clearly KNOWS who he/she is, that vote will still be > > counted as non-binding? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Dian > > > > > >> 在 2019年12月4日，下午5:13，Aljoscha Krettek <aljos...@apache.org> 写道： > > >> > > >> Very sensible! +1 > > >> > > >>> On 4. Dec 2019, at 10:02, Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I believe this to be a sensible approach by Dawid; +1. > > >>> > > >>> On 04/12/2019 09:04, Dawid Wysakowicz wrote: > > >>>> Hi all, > > >>>> > > >>>> Sorry I think I was not clear enough on my initial e-mail. Let me > > first clarify two things and later on try to rephrase my initial > suggestion. > > >>>> > > >>>> 1. I do not want to count all votes from @apache.org addresses as > > binding > > >>>> 2. I do not want to discourage people that do not have @apache.org > > >>>> address from voting > > >>>> 3. What I said does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMCs > > >>>> > > >>>> What I meant is that if you are a committer/PMC please use an > > apache.org address because then the person that summarizes the votes can > > check in the apache directory if a person with that address is a > > committer/PMC in flink project. Otherwise if a committer uses a different > > address there is no way to check if that person is a committer/PMC or > not. > > It does not mean though that if you vote from apache.org this vote is > > automatically binding. It just allows us to check if it is. > > >>>> > > >>>> To elaborate on Xuefu's example. It's absolutely fine for you to use > > an apache address for voting. I will still check if you are a committer > or > > not. But take me (or any other committer) for example. If I use my > > non-apache address for a vote and the person verifying the vote does not > > know me and my address, it is not easy for that person to verify if I am > a > > committer or not. > > >>>> > > >>>> Also it does not mean that other people are not allowed to vote. You > > can vote from other addresses, but those votes will be counted as > > non-binding. This does not change anything for non-committers/non-PMC. > > However if you are a committer and vote from non apache address your vote > > will be non-binding, because we cannot verify you are indeed a committer > > (we might don't know your other address). > > >>>> > > >>>> I agree the additional information (binding, non-binding) in a vote > > helps, but it still should be verified. People make mistakes. > > >>>> > > >>>> I hope this clears it up a bit. > > >>>> > > >>>> Best, > > >>>> > > >>>> Dawid > > >>>> > > >>>> On 04/12/2019 04:58, Dian Fu wrote: > > >>>>> Thanks Dawid for start this discussion. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I have the same feeling with Xuefu and Jingsong. Besides that, > > according to the bylaws, for some kinds of votes, only the votes from > > active PMC members are binding, such as product release. So an email > > address doesn't help here. Even if a vote is from a Flink committer, it > is > > still non-binding. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>> Dian > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> 在 2019年12月4日，上午10:37，Jingsong Lee<lzljs3620...@apache.org> 写道： > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Thanks Dawid for driving this discussion. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> +1 to Xuefu's viewpoint. > > >>>>>> I am not a Flink committer, but sometimes I use apache email > > address to > > >>>>>> send email. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Another way is that we require the binding ticket to must contain > > "binding". > > >>>>>> Otherwise it must be a "non-binding" ticket. > > >>>>>> In this way, we can let lazy people continue voting without any > > suffix too. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Best, > > >>>>>> Jingsong Lee > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 3:58 AM Xuefu Z<usxu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Hi Dawid, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Thanks for initiating this discussion. I understand the problem > you > > >>>>>>> described, but the solution might not work as having an > apache.org > > email > > >>>>>>> address doesn't necessary mean it's from a Flink committer. This > > certainly > > >>>>>>> applies to me. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> It probably helps for the voters to identify themselves by > > specifying > > >>>>>>> either "binding" or "non-binding", though I understand this > cannot > > be > > >>>>>>> enforced but serves a general guideline. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>>>> Xuefu > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 6:15 AM Dawid Wysakowicz< > > dwysakow...@apache.org> > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Hi, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I wanted to reach out primarily to the Flink's committers. I > think > > >>>>>>>> whenever we cast a vote on a proposal, is it a FLIP, release > > candidate > > >>>>>>>> or any other proposal, we should use our apache.org email > > address. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> It is not an easy task to check if a person voting is a > > committer/PMC if > > >>>>>>>> we do not work with him/her on a daily basis. This is important > > for > > >>>>>>>> verifying if a vote is binding or not. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Best, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Dawid > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>> Xuefu Zhang > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> "In Honey We Trust!" > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> -- > > >>>>>> Best, Jingsong Lee > > >>> > > > > >
