On Sun, 2006-02-05 at 11:48 -0500, Daniel Carrera wrote: > Louis Suarez-Potts wrote: > >> * When people asked the MP lead why she fired a MarCon the issue was > >> sent to the CC. > > > > Ian and Adam asked Laurent for the CC to intervene. The CC did not ask > > to see this and sent the issue back to the MP.
IIRC Adam asked what the procedure was for expressing a grievance if it was not allowed on the list and Louis referred him to the CC. Since the CC rep is Laurent, that is what happened. Presumably the project has to have some procedures to deal with something that appears to be an injustice. In this case it seems the outcome ended up as - Don't post about this on the marketing list, its off topic. ok who do we contact? The Community Council - who then referred it back to the marketing project. To me that seems totally bizarre. > I could be mistaken, but I really think that Ian and Adam were asking > for procedures; not for the CC to ask Jacqueline to tell us why she > fired Ryan. Certainly that was the gist of what I wrote. I don't know what other people said. I would hope that we could establish at least the level of support to community members that companies give to employees without it being necessary to form a union :-) <NB joke> Yes people sometimes say things in haste and regret at their leisure. Also many people are not native speakers of English so sometiomes the way things are worded sound worse than intended. Then there are people getting passionate and emotional because they believe strongly in something. Mailing list are notoriously good at polarising debates and ending up in acrymony. There should at least be a cooling off period before important decisions are made that affect the individual volunteers. > > In fact, the CC dislikes intervening in a project's affairs. I brought > > the issue of the DLS to the CC because it involved money and a decision > > had to be made soon. > > Ryan didn't ask for money. He said he wanted to go at his own expense. I have to concur that this was spelled out several times. The post that invoked the community council was this one. ***************************************************** Adam > I'll say that this may have not been the best post, but can you point > us to where we take our grievances? Maybe it will help us keep posts > like this off of this list and directed to the right place. Louis Sure. If any user has problems with the project (OOo big or small; individual or overall stuff), then the Council is always there to hear the user. ***************************************************** It seems to me that the asking for money thing is perhaps a complete misunderstanding again underlining the need for caution when acting on a flame war. It also seems that in practice the CC is not at all geared up to deal with this type of situation and really it should be. I can only make an observation here, I have no means of changing anything. > > Most of the people here are volunteers. They do not want to be in a > > community or on a list where there are constant fights, constant > > battles and some fear. > > You don't think that is an apt description of your email? No need to > lose your temper Louis. If you think I'm wrong simply say so. I think > that the project is a Cathedral and gave reasons. You are welcome to > disagree politely. > > > If you do not like the OpenOffice.org project Daniel, why do you stay > > here? Why do you assume because someone disagrees with you or even in the past might have said things that make your management job more difficult that they don't like the project? Heck all of us can find fault with the project and no-one expects you to be a miracle worker, Louis. Its obvious to me that Daniel has got het up about OOo not because he hates the project but because he loves it. If you dedicate most of your life to something you do tend to be more strongly attached to it than is sometimes healthy (No offence Daniel but you can be obsessive - but that has some real advantages too). Its obvious to anyone that Daniel's previous commitment was more than you would get from an average paid employee. > OOo is an important project and I'd like to see it succeed. I > participate in a way that I feel will help the project most. For > example, by pointing out barriers to participation. That's the same > thing that most people in this thread are doing. > > > Well, good for you. Perhaps one day you will be as popular as OOo. In > > the meanwhile: do not bother us with more of your baseless attacks. This is just so petty its unbelievable. Don't take all the analysis so personally. There has to be analysis of weaknesses if anything is to change and if things don't change they die. I think the discussion of these things has been constructive so let's not make it otherwise. Even if you personally can't stand the sight of Daniel, as a member of the project he is entitled to an opinion and it doesn't seem a lot different than anyone else has been posting so why single him out? > I'm pretty sure I didn't attack anyone. I certainly didn't say anything > bad about any individual. I can't imagine why saying that the project is > a Cathedral is an attack. If I may give you some friendly advice, please > consider the tone of your emails. Some people might take those as an > attack, which is not what you want. The difficulty is when malice is interpreted when none is intended. That is a real problem with mailing lists. -- Ian Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ZMS Ltd --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
