On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 5:12 PM Sven Reimers <sven.reim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, > > I did not intend to start a flame war ... > > My take away so far (not in any kind of order, more a brain dump) > > 1. Donating code is a lot of work > 2. Nobody knows upfront what will be missing in a donation, i.e. amount of > work and knowledge required to get this going in Apache NetBeans > 3. Contribution uptake depends on required knowledge and time (e.g. I would > like to tackle the C++ stuff at least to get it integrated, but not > necessary volunteering for full scale maintenance) > Solely on this point - as Geertjan mentioned, I have an idea on C/C++: what if we simply used an LSP server (ccls in particular) for the editing features? And overall used something that is simpler (and hopefully easier to maintain) than full CND? (I have done some experiments in this direction.) But if we went that route, we would reuse only a small part of CND. So, if you wish to work on C/C++, I am not insisting on my ideas in any way. Some time ago, I sketched building of CND here: https://github.com/jlahoda/netbeans/tree/cnd-building But a lot (and too much for me) remains to be done - re-licensing, fixing licenses, external binaries, etc. But the issue I am not sure of in the long-term is how to maintain this, as new features are added to C/C++. Jan 4. Code which will not get donated, will never be part of Apache NetBeans > again (ok for a lot of stuff I assume, harder to accept for other parts) > 5. Not all parts of Apache NetBeans will need the same amount of work once > integrated, e.g. I would not expect a lot of evolution for community-xml, > due to the stable nature of XML and XSD stuff, so maintenance cost should > be low, compared e.g. to the Java Editor infrastructure. > 6. Some donations are a bet on the future - build it and they will come, > e.g. python - if we get this running I would hope for people contributing, > if we do not get the code as part of the Apache NetBeans code base, I would > assume that there will never be a python integration for Apache NetBeans > again (who is going to write it? people just using VS-Code anyway) - so > maybe yes we request a lot of work for an uncertain future, but I think > some areas deserve betting.... > > Not sure where this will take us in the discussion with donating more > code, my original intent was just pointing out we have more gems in > hg.netbeans.org, than we are probably aware of and I just wanted to figure > out if there would be people interested in those features (e.g. > collaboration area). This by no means was a request for getting it donated, > just a hint - Look cool feature from the distant history - would this be > great for the broader Apache Ecosystem (I just found out there is Apache > Vysper a XMPP server..)? > > Thanks for listening > > -Sven > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:44 PM Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > I think this particular game is over. The C/C++ features have been > donated, > > no one is taking responsibility for it, except Jan Lahoda right now, he > has > > some plans and ideas. Soon the community-xml code and community-uml code > > will be donated, though I suspect nobody will actually do anything with > it. > > There's really a lot of code, with several people working on auditing and > > so on, then nothing happens with it in Apache. > > > > It can't go on like this -- we in Apache can't afford to have thousands > of > > lines of dead code and Oracle can't afford to spend time on auditing code > > that is dead and nobody standing up to even do the absolute minimal work > > once the code comes into Apache. > > > > Gj > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:38 PM Christian Lenz <christian.l...@gmx.net> > > wrote: > > > > > No, it is not. You made no one out of it. Someone is everyone who > already > > > helped, included you and me. Someone is everyone on the planet who will > > > help. And also, you already used „someone“ in your comments over the > past > > > weeks. So don’t be so strict with that anymore. Or does that mean that > > you > > > are only allowed to say someone? > > > > > > Anyway, other question, qhat will happen with the code under oracle? > Let > > > me guess: Nothing. So in the end, donate the code and thats it. No need > > to > > > discuss that to much. > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > Von: Geertjan Wielenga > > > Gesendet: Freitag, 10. April 2020 15:08 > > > An: dev@netbeans.apache.org > > > Betreff: Re: NetBeans Collaboration Kit > > > > > > “Someday someone will own it.” > > > > > > It’s clear over the past years that “someone” does not exist. > > > > > > If nobody raises their hand to say they’re going to, at the very least, > > own > > > the integration and basic bug fixing and stabilizing of a piece of > code, > > we > > > are no longer going to be asking Oracle to spend time donating it. > > > > > > Gj > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:26, Christian Lenz <christian.l...@gmx.net> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > IMHO, if the plugin works and compiles and just has little feature > > > support > > > > or missing features, there shouldn‘t be a big problem to have it in > the > > > > NetBeans Code w/o someone having owned it. Someday, someone will own > > it. > > > > Atm more or less the JS and HTML code is not touched that often and > it > > is > > > > still there and will not be removed because of no one owns it. If the > > > > code/plugin makes sense and if it is working, Oracle should donate > it. > > > > Everyone who wants to change smth, will do it probably. > > > > > > > > Also, I would like to see such live sharing feature in NetBeans. It > is > > > not > > > > that out of Topic, because it could help here in such times too. It > is > > > > called live sharing: > > > > https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2017/11/15/live-share > > > > > > > > There is no Need to create a new infrastructure for that, because it > is > > > > still there. Somewhere there is a server, where I or you can login (I > > > think > > > > with a GitHub account) and create an live sharing id, share it with > > your > > > > pair programming partner and they can join. Unfortunately the code is > > not > > > > open source, but they have a documentation about that: > > > > https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/live-share > > > > Maybe it helps. I had a look into it, couple of months ago but not > deep > > > > enough. It is not to say: I want that, it was just an info for that > > > > discussion here that such a feature could make sense for the > > > collaboration > > > > kit plugin too😊. The use of the Plugin of VS Code is really nice and > > > works > > > > quite good. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers and happy eastern > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Von: Geertjan Wielenga > > > > Gesendet: Freitag, 10. April 2020 11:33 > > > > An: dev@netbeans.apache.org > > > > Betreff: Re: NetBeans Collaboration Kit > > > > > > > > We need to be very simple and strict here — if no one is going to own > > the > > > > code, Oracle should not be asked to spend time and effort auditing > and > > > > donating it to Apache. > > > > > > > > Gj > > > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 11:31, ehsavoie <emmanuel.hugon...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes I loved this collaborative tool back in the days :) but my dev > > time > > > > is > > > > > limited for this :( > > > > > Maybe integration with some kafka like tooling would boost this. > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > Emmanuel Hugonnet > > > > > http://www.ehsavoie.com > > > > > http://twitter.com/ehsavoie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 12:31 AM Daoud Abdelmonem Faleh < > > > > > abdelmonem.fa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe something based on operation transformation with backends > > > running > > > > > on > > > > > > either Websockets or Jabber protocoles > > > > > > > > > > > > http://operational-transformation.github.io/ > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2020, at 21:26, Sven Reimers <sven.reim...@gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody on the list here remembering the "connected developer " > > > stuff > > > > > in > > > > > > > NetBeans... This was a great feature set to connect developers > > > using > > > > > > > NetBeans integrated in NetBeans. It contained an integrated > > Jabber > > > > > > Client, > > > > > > > a way to live share file edits and more cool stuff... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somehow the actual situation with everyone working from home - > > > > > > desperately > > > > > > > looking for connectivity reminded me of those features and I > was > > > > > > astonished > > > > > > > that we never discussed those modules for transfer to Apache > > > NetBeans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am in no position to claim that I would be able to maintain > > > those, > > > > > but > > > > > > I > > > > > > > thought this may be worth a try.. So I compiled the code from > > the > > > > > > > original repo and put them into a 12.0beta2 and they installed > > ok, > > > > just > > > > > > > trying to connect and authenticate to a jabber service I got > into > > > > > > problems > > > > > > > with TLS ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So two questions: Anyone interested in this stuff? Should we > > start > > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > about getting this over to Apache? From an architectural > > standpoint > > > > > > Jabber > > > > > > > is only one implementation in the backend - seems we could use > > > other > > > > > > > technologies as well.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe there are more gems hidden in the bowls from > > > hg.netbeans.org... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to any comments > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Sven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links for your reference: > > > > > > > https://netbeans.org/kb/articles/quickstart-collaboration.html > > > > > > > https://netbeans.org/kb/docs/ide/team-servers.html > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Sven Reimers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Java Champion > > > > > > > * Apache NetBeans PMC: http://netbeans.apache.org > > > > > > > * JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: https://www.meetup.com/JUG-Bodensee > > > > > > > * Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009 & 2018 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Sven Reimers > > * Java Champion > * Apache NetBeans PMC: http://netbeans.apache.org > * JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: https://www.meetup.com/JUG-Bodensee > * Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009 & 2018 > > * LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers >
