Just for the record, I do not know if I have the requisite knowledge, but...
If the consensus is to want to integrate the collaboration into NetBeans, I would be willing to take ownership of it. Just remember that I own and drive a truck for a living and, therefore, can't spend more that weekends on the codebase, and maybe an hour or two during the work week. However, if people are willing to help me out, I can be the owner and/or point person on this feature. Just let me know... Sincerely, Sean Carrick Owner - PekinSOFT Systems s...@pekinsoft.com (309) 989-0672 On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:04 AM Jan Lahoda <lah...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 5:12 PM Sven Reimers <sven.reim...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I did not intend to start a flame war ... > > > > My take away so far (not in any kind of order, more a brain dump) > > > > 1. Donating code is a lot of work > > 2. Nobody knows upfront what will be missing in a donation, i.e. amount > of > > work and knowledge required to get this going in Apache NetBeans > > 3. Contribution uptake depends on required knowledge and time (e.g. I > would > > like to tackle the C++ stuff at least to get it integrated, but not > > necessary volunteering for full scale maintenance) > > > > Solely on this point - as Geertjan mentioned, I have an idea on C/C++: what > if we simply used an LSP server (ccls in particular) for the editing > features? And overall used something that is simpler (and hopefully easier > to maintain) than full CND? (I have done some experiments in this > direction.) > > But if we went that route, we would reuse only a small part of CND. So, if > you wish to work on C/C++, I am not insisting on my ideas in any way. Some > time ago, I sketched building of CND here: > https://github.com/jlahoda/netbeans/tree/cnd-building > > But a lot (and too much for me) remains to be done - re-licensing, fixing > licenses, external binaries, etc. But the issue I am not sure of in the > long-term is how to maintain this, as new features are added to C/C++. > > Jan > > 4. Code which will not get donated, will never be part of Apache NetBeans > > again (ok for a lot of stuff I assume, harder to accept for other parts) > > 5. Not all parts of Apache NetBeans will need the same amount of work > once > > integrated, e.g. I would not expect a lot of evolution for community-xml, > > due to the stable nature of XML and XSD stuff, so maintenance cost should > > be low, compared e.g. to the Java Editor infrastructure. > > 6. Some donations are a bet on the future - build it and they will come, > > e.g. python - if we get this running I would hope for people > contributing, > > if we do not get the code as part of the Apache NetBeans code base, I > would > > assume that there will never be a python integration for Apache NetBeans > > again (who is going to write it? people just using VS-Code anyway) - so > > maybe yes we request a lot of work for an uncertain future, but I think > > some areas deserve betting.... > > > > Not sure where this will take us in the discussion with donating more > > code, my original intent was just pointing out we have more gems in > > hg.netbeans.org, than we are probably aware of and I just wanted to > figure > > out if there would be people interested in those features (e.g. > > collaboration area). This by no means was a request for getting it > donated, > > just a hint - Look cool feature from the distant history - would this be > > great for the broader Apache Ecosystem (I just found out there is Apache > > Vysper a XMPP server..)? > > > > Thanks for listening > > > > -Sven > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:44 PM Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > I think this particular game is over. The C/C++ features have been > > donated, > > > no one is taking responsibility for it, except Jan Lahoda right now, he > > has > > > some plans and ideas. Soon the community-xml code and community-uml > code > > > will be donated, though I suspect nobody will actually do anything with > > it. > > > There's really a lot of code, with several people working on auditing > and > > > so on, then nothing happens with it in Apache. > > > > > > It can't go on like this -- we in Apache can't afford to have thousands > > of > > > lines of dead code and Oracle can't afford to spend time on auditing > code > > > that is dead and nobody standing up to even do the absolute minimal > work > > > once the code comes into Apache. > > > > > > Gj > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:38 PM Christian Lenz <christian.l...@gmx.net > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > No, it is not. You made no one out of it. Someone is everyone who > > already > > > > helped, included you and me. Someone is everyone on the planet who > will > > > > help. And also, you already used „someone“ in your comments over the > > past > > > > weeks. So don’t be so strict with that anymore. Or does that mean > that > > > you > > > > are only allowed to say someone? > > > > > > > > Anyway, other question, qhat will happen with the code under oracle? > > Let > > > > me guess: Nothing. So in the end, donate the code and thats it. No > need > > > to > > > > discuss that to much. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Von: Geertjan Wielenga > > > > Gesendet: Freitag, 10. April 2020 15:08 > > > > An: dev@netbeans.apache.org > > > > Betreff: Re: NetBeans Collaboration Kit > > > > > > > > “Someday someone will own it.” > > > > > > > > It’s clear over the past years that “someone” does not exist. > > > > > > > > If nobody raises their hand to say they’re going to, at the very > least, > > > own > > > > the integration and basic bug fixing and stabilizing of a piece of > > code, > > > we > > > > are no longer going to be asking Oracle to spend time donating it. > > > > > > > > Gj > > > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:26, Christian Lenz <christian.l...@gmx.net > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > IMHO, if the plugin works and compiles and just has little feature > > > > support > > > > > or missing features, there shouldn‘t be a big problem to have it in > > the > > > > > NetBeans Code w/o someone having owned it. Someday, someone will > own > > > it. > > > > > Atm more or less the JS and HTML code is not touched that often and > > it > > > is > > > > > still there and will not be removed because of no one owns it. If > the > > > > > code/plugin makes sense and if it is working, Oracle should donate > > it. > > > > > Everyone who wants to change smth, will do it probably. > > > > > > > > > > Also, I would like to see such live sharing feature in NetBeans. It > > is > > > > not > > > > > that out of Topic, because it could help here in such times too. It > > is > > > > > called live sharing: > > > > > https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2017/11/15/live-share > > > > > > > > > > There is no Need to create a new infrastructure for that, because > it > > is > > > > > still there. Somewhere there is a server, where I or you can login > (I > > > > think > > > > > with a GitHub account) and create an live sharing id, share it with > > > your > > > > > pair programming partner and they can join. Unfortunately the code > is > > > not > > > > > open source, but they have a documentation about that: > > > > > https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/live-share > > > > > Maybe it helps. I had a look into it, couple of months ago but not > > deep > > > > > enough. It is not to say: I want that, it was just an info for that > > > > > discussion here that such a feature could make sense for the > > > > collaboration > > > > > kit plugin too😊. The use of the Plugin of VS Code is really nice > and > > > > works > > > > > quite good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers and happy eastern > > > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Von: Geertjan Wielenga > > > > > Gesendet: Freitag, 10. April 2020 11:33 > > > > > An: dev@netbeans.apache.org > > > > > Betreff: Re: NetBeans Collaboration Kit > > > > > > > > > > We need to be very simple and strict here — if no one is going to > own > > > the > > > > > code, Oracle should not be asked to spend time and effort auditing > > and > > > > > donating it to Apache. > > > > > > > > > > Gj > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 11:31, ehsavoie < > emmanuel.hugon...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Yes I loved this collaborative tool back in the days :) but my > dev > > > time > > > > > is > > > > > > limited for this :( > > > > > > Maybe integration with some kafka like tooling would boost this. > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > > > Emmanuel Hugonnet > > > > > > http://www.ehsavoie.com > > > > > > http://twitter.com/ehsavoie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 12:31 AM Daoud Abdelmonem Faleh < > > > > > > abdelmonem.fa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe something based on operation transformation with backends > > > > running > > > > > > on > > > > > > > either Websockets or Jabber protocoles > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://operational-transformation.github.io/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 9, 2020, at 21:26, Sven Reimers < > sven.reim...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anybody on the list here remembering the "connected > developer " > > > > stuff > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > NetBeans... This was a great feature set to connect > developers > > > > using > > > > > > > > NetBeans integrated in NetBeans. It contained an integrated > > > Jabber > > > > > > > Client, > > > > > > > > a way to live share file edits and more cool stuff... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somehow the actual situation with everyone working from home > - > > > > > > > desperately > > > > > > > > looking for connectivity reminded me of those features and I > > was > > > > > > > astonished > > > > > > > > that we never discussed those modules for transfer to Apache > > > > NetBeans > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am in no position to claim that I would be able to maintain > > > > those, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > thought this may be worth a try.. So I compiled the code > from > > > the > > > > > > > > original repo and put them into a 12.0beta2 and they > installed > > > ok, > > > > > just > > > > > > > > trying to connect and authenticate to a jabber service I got > > into > > > > > > > problems > > > > > > > > with TLS ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So two questions: Anyone interested in this stuff? Should we > > > start > > > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > > about getting this over to Apache? From an architectural > > > standpoint > > > > > > > Jabber > > > > > > > > is only one implementation in the backend - seems we could > use > > > > other > > > > > > > > technologies as well.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe there are more gems hidden in the bowls from > > > > hg.netbeans.org... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to any comments > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Sven > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Links for your reference: > > > > > > > > > https://netbeans.org/kb/articles/quickstart-collaboration.html > > > > > > > > https://netbeans.org/kb/docs/ide/team-servers.html > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Sven Reimers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Java Champion > > > > > > > > * Apache NetBeans PMC: http://netbeans.apache.org > > > > > > > > * JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: > https://www.meetup.com/JUG-Bodensee > > > > > > > > * Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009 & 2018 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Sven Reimers > > > > * Java Champion > > * Apache NetBeans PMC: http://netbeans.apache.org > > * JUG Leader JUG Bodensee: https://www.meetup.com/JUG-Bodensee > > * Duke's Choice Award Winner 2009 & 2018 > > > > * LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/svenreimers > > >
