> There is also almost no use of native system-L&Fs anymore - every single app > looks different these days.
This is actually true--not even Microsoft Office follows the standard scheme with e.g. checkboxes and buttons. MacOS does have its own distinct design, though it frequently changes as new OS versions come out. And I just upgraded to Windows 11, and saw several things in the Windows LAF that would need tweaking (too dark scrollbars, hard-to-see checkbox checkmarks). I'm now convinced that FlatLAF is the way to go for all platforms. It'll be a lot easier to do improvements and tweaks to FlatLAF, since it's very configurable and maintained by a NetBeans committer (Karl Tauber/DevCharly). And it's one LAF to maintain instead of three or four. And dark mode was never going to work with the Aqua or Windows LAFs from JDK in any case. I also looked at DevCharly's latest FlatLAF developments, and behold, there's already a patch to make certain components look more platform-appropriate: https://github.com/JFormDesigner/FlatLaf/pull/414 I think this is the way to go--use FlatLAF on all platforms, but (eventually) introduce a few specific tweaks and configuration changes to blend in with the local OS. So I think now: +1 to change NetBeans' default to FlatLAF (on all platforms) -- Eirik -----Original Message----- From: Josh Juneau <juneau...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 2, 2021 6:42 PM To: dev@netbeans.apache.org Cc: Ernie Rael <err...@raelity.com> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Default to FlatLaf in NetBeans 13? +1…I still use Darcula on OS X, but the flatlaf dark is also nice. Josh Juneau juneau...@gmail.com http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com https://www.apress.com/us/search?query=Juneau > On Nov 2, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Michael Bien <mbie...@gmail.com> wrote: > > the dialog would have to restart NB after the theme selection. I think it > would look better if the main window wasn't opened yet. > > > -michael > >> On 02.11.21 17:39, Ernie Rael wrote: >> How about the Start Page, aka Welcome Screen, for basic/initial/beginner >> configuration and pointers; and it's always available via "Menu > Help > >> StartPage". >> >> -ernie >> >>> On 11/1/2021 5:53 PM, Eric Bresie wrote: >>> Would it be worth allowing selection of LAF at install time? Maybe >>> a wizard with other customization (plugins, language, fonts, >>> formatting, etc.)? This may take a page from Intellij but maybe.., >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 6:02 PM Mark Eggers >>> <its_toas...@yahoo.com.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I just played around with FlatLaf Light on Ubuntu 20.04 and >>>> NetBeans 12.5 >>>> >>>> The fonts look much clearer than they have been. >>>> >>>> It's "bright", but then I suppose that's what the light version is >>>> supposed to be. I'll see how tired my eyes get after a day or so of using. >>>> >>>> I can always revert. >>>> >>>> It looks reasonable, and I didn't see any color issues that were >>>> too bad (maybe a little light on XML comments). >>>> >>>> The colors in FlatLaf dark still end up being too "muddied" for day >>>> to day use in the editor. That's the curse of being red/green color >>>> deficient. >>>> >>>> +0 for me. >>>> >>>> . . . just my two cents >>>> /mde/ >>>> >>>> On 11/1/2021 11:04 AM, Mark Eggers wrote: >>>>> -0 on this. >>>>> >>>>> I am red/green color deficient. I've tried using FlatLaf several >>>>> times, and I just could not get the color selection to work where >>>>> everything was different and yet easy for me to read. >>>>> >>>>> I'll try again on 12.5, but for now I've stuck with the Windows >>>>> LAF for my Windows systems and Nimbus (don't laugh) for my GtK >>>>> systems due to some font scaling issues. >>>>> >>>>> I'll try FlatLaf with 12.5 on Ubuntu 20.04 to see how it goes, but >>>>> Nimbus seems to work fine for me at the moment. >>>>> >>>>> Changing the default is not an issue with me since I currently do >>>>> it anyway. About the only issue with changing away from FlatLaf is >>>>> that I have to change the editor LAF separately from the IDE LAF >>>>> (last time I tried). >>>>> >>>>> I'm mostly a systems admin / architect these days so my NetBeans >>>>> usage centers around proof of concepts and tracking down memory >>>>> leaks in Java web applications. >>>>> >>>>> In short, I'm more of a casual user at this point. >>>>> >>>>> . . . . just my two cents >>>>> /mde/ >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for a great platform, and hopefully one day soon I'll >>>>> actually be able to contribute. >>>>> >>>>> On 11/1/2021 7:56 AM, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote: >>>>>> +1 on this one. Maybe if we could even the installer should be on >>>>>> FlatLaf (right now on GTK with dark schema, the license agreement >>>>>> text is white over white, need to select it to be able to read >>>>>> that.) >>>>>> >>>>>> I use FlatLaf Light for the release versions and FlatLaf Dark on >>>>>> the dev builds. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 11/1/21 07:01, Neil C Smith wrote: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, now we've branched off 12.6, and we know that the next >>>>>>> release will be NetBeans 13, require JDK 11+, and hopefully ship >>>>>>> with nb-javac included .. is it time we changed (improved?! :-) >>>>>>> ) how NetBeans looks out of the box too? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Should we consider FlatLaf (light or dark) as the default look >>>>>>> and feel from NetBeans 13? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is partly prompted by working through a few JIRA tickets >>>>>>> with HiDPI issues resolved by switching, a few snarky social >>>>>>> media comments about NetBeans' appearance I've seen recently >>>>>>> where the go-to replies seem to just be to tell people to switch >>>>>>> to FlatLaf .. and the fact I'm constantly switching even when >>>>>>> debugging because the GTK theme on Ubuntu is borderline unusable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, what do you think? For or against? Maybe also add what you >>>>>>> do use, and light or dark, in a reply - it might make some sense >>>>>>> if we defaulted to what the majority of us use in practise? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best wishes, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Neil >>>> -- >>> Eric Bresie >>> ebre...@gmail.com >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org >> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >> >> >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > >
