Ruth - go try the use case mentioned below on any email client you can find and let me know the results. You will see:
1. That the From address gets an error receipt - something Scott has mentioned as what we need to do - and I agree. 2. That the BCC address ALWAYS gets the message What this patch is about is #2 - we can attack #1 or if Scott has time to fix this in the system, then great. Regardless, this is about #2 - feel free to fix the process all you want, but please use real life as a measure of what should be done. Also, please use JIRA for future correspondence on this issue - this is mostly a reiteration of what I put there, but since you replied directly to the dev list, I wanted to make sure you got it. Cheers, Ruppert -- Tim Ruppert HotWax Media http://www.hotwaxmedia.com o:801.649.6594 f:801.649.6595 On Dec 25, 2009, at 6:51 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: > Hi Tim: > Please see my comments in line: > > Tim Ruppert wrote: >> I won't dispute that there needs to be something in the system that better >> allows you to see whether or not emails are able to be sent - but are you >> really saying that, as someone who's focusing on users, if you put your >> email address, that you want to be notified on when orders are submitted, >> into the BCC field - for a silent copy of it (not the same as the To and >> CC), that you would want a customer's invalid email address to cause you not >> to be notified? That's the simple question here. >> > So the real problem is that when an order is placed, and the email > notification fails, someone else (presumably the store owner) will not be > notified of, what? The order? The order confirmation? The failed email > delivery? Seems to me that the email service isn't broken, the process is. > > The change you are suggesting will cause a false sense of security. Since > now someone is getting a "confirmation" via copy that this email went out. > How will the copied recipient(s) even know that the original failed? What > have I missed here? > > What you seem to be doing is increasing the complexity of the send mail code > and introducing more potential points of failure. >> I'll be happy to sit down and do a weeks worth of research into all of the >> different mail sending programs - and how configurable they are as to this >> particular issue - but please just start there. Is is better for the person >> who's requesting that they get a silent copy of this email - to not get it >> because of a user error? >> >> > I say, in this case yes. If the email didn't go through, then as far as the > sender is concerned, it did not get sent. In this case, the sender should get > a notification that the email failed. Hence my original suggestion to modify > the application. >> There are too many people who don't use OFBiz for every part of their world >> - and this is limiting to them in a big way. We can make this configurable >> on To or CC, but since this isn't the bug or the fix that's provided - we >> can choose to talk about that when someone makes another JIRA issue and we >> can discuss it there. >> >> > Well, I wouldn't be so picky about all this except that someone has done a > really nice job changing the sendMail ECA all in the name of validating HTML. > Such a nice job, that I have to disable it to use the sendMail service. So, > all I'm suggesting is that when you make basic - seemingly innocuous - > changes like this, consider the possibility of any unintended consequences. > >> Cheers, >> Ruppert >> -- >> Tim Ruppert >> HotWax Media >> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com >> >> o:801.649.6594 >> f:801.649.6595 >> >> On Dec 25, 2009, at 3:44 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >> >> >>> Hi Tim: >>> Where does the specification say that the existing OFBiz implementation is >>> wrong? Where does it say that a CC and/or BCC of an email should be sent >>> using a separate "connection"? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Ruth >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >>> ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com >>> >>> Tim Ruppert wrote: >>> >>>> The email behavior is wrong by the simple specification of the way that >>>> the messages are supposed to be sent - this shouldn't even be disputed. >>>> We need to fix out email sender to work the same way that email is >>>> supposed to work - we can do whatever we want to with the CSR application >>>> - but this is a no brainer and needs to be put into the project ASAP. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Ruppert >>>> -- >>>> Tim Ruppert >>>> HotWax Media >>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com >>>> >>>> o:801.649.6594 >>>> f:801.649.6595 >>>> >>>> On Dec 25, 2009, at 9:14 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Pranay: >>>>> Perhaps you should change the way the CSR application works instead of >>>>> changing the email behavior? Maybe you could add some status indicators >>>>> and status event notifications (using a separate email) in the CSR >>>>> application to track the success or failure of an email notification. >>>>> After all, that is why OFBiz keeps track of email events and the status >>>>> thereof, isn't it? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Ruth >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>>>> Find me on the web at http://www.myofbiz.com or Google keyword "myofbiz" >>>>> ruth.hoff...@myofbiz.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pranay Pandey wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Ruth, >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for looking into it and replying. >>>>>> I imagine a case where customer is asking for the status of his order to >>>>>> Company CSR as he was successful in placing an order from ecommerce >>>>>> application with a wrong email address, which was syntactically correct. >>>>>> But company didn't receive any email because of email sending failure. I >>>>>> accept that there is a way for CSR to go to the order manager and find >>>>>> the appropriate order but usually CSR or Company executive logs in to >>>>>> the order manager only when they receive an email for an order. Also the >>>>>> general behavior of mail client. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also think of an organization where they don't want to login to the back >>>>>> office application and they manage their order in other systems based on >>>>>> the order email notifications. Then the only way to know about any order >>>>>> placed is the email notification that company receives as a BCC receiver. >>>>>> >>>>>> There may be other ways of handling this or as you said this can be a >>>>>> configuration setting. I would love to hear community opinion on this. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks & Regards >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Pranay Pandey >>>>>> HotWax Media | www.hotwaxmedia.com >>>>>> Direct: +91 98260 35576 >>>>>> Ext: 442 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Ruth Hoffman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> But, I would think in the normal business setting, if the original >>>>>>> failed for some reason, you would not want to sent the BCC. Why send a >>>>>>> copy if the original failed? >>>>>>> Ruth >>>>>>> Pranay Pandey (JIRA) wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [ >>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3379?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel >>>>>>>> ] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pranay Pandey updated OFBIZ-3379: >>>>>>>> --------------------------------- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Attachment: OFBIZ-3379.patch >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here is the patch for review. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Email sending process using one connection for To/CC/BCC causing >>>>>>>>> issues >>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> Key: OFBIZ-3379 >>>>>>>>> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-3379 >>>>>>>>> Project: OFBiz >>>>>>>>> Issue Type: Bug >>>>>>>>> Components: framework >>>>>>>>> Affects Versions: Release Branch 9.04, SVN trunk >>>>>>>>> Reporter: Pranay Pandey >>>>>>>>> Fix For: Release Branch 9.04, SVN trunk >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Attachments: OFBIZ-3379.patch >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Typically BCCs are handled via the sending mail client. That is, when >>>>>>>>> the client sees a BCC in an email, it will open up two connections to >>>>>>>>> the mail server, the first for the To/CC fields, the second for BCC >>>>>>>>> fields, this way the addresses are masked from the headers and there >>>>>>>>> is that layer of anonymity that BCC is used for. >>>>>>>>> What appears to be happening is that OFBiz is sending all of the >>>>>>>>> information in one connection to the mail server and having the mail >>>>>>>>> server sort out the details. So when sendTo encountering an invalid >>>>>>>>> email, and then terminating the remaining execution of the outgoing >>>>>>>>> process and no email sent to BCC address which is usually going to be >>>>>>>>> a valid address from email settings for the company. >>>>>>>>> The fix the issue, we need to send this via two connection to mail >>>>>>>>> client. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>
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