> On Nov 20, 2019, at 3:12 AM, Jörg Schmidt <joe...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dr. Michael Stehmann [mailto:anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 10:14 AM
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: volunteer activity tracking (was: Ariel is back
>> in our PMC and developer circle)
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Am 20.11.19 um 09:33 schrieb Jörg Schmidt:
>>> Hello Peter,
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Peter Kovacs [mailto:pe...@apache.org]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 7:50 AM
>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> Subject: volunteer activity tracking (was: Ariel is back in
>>>> our PMC and developer circle)
>>>>
>>>> Hello Jörg,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is still unclear why you want to track activity. Can you
>>>> elaborate on
>>>> this point maybe?
>>>
>>> First let me say: I don't think it is necessary to find out
>> in real time who is active at the moment, it would probably
>> be enough to publish it once a month.
>>>
>>> Why do I want to know who is active?
>>> For decisions of the PMC the majority principle applies
>> (imho). The majority, however, depends on the votes
>> (respectively the opinions) of the people who are currently active.
>>>
>>>
>>> And in the long run: Has no one really thought about the
>> principle that no one can be excluded from the PMC and that
>> third parties can install majorities there?
>>>
>>> for example: At first glance, activity is activity, but I
>> think there is a certain difference between the activity of
>> people who only work in the project because they are paid for
>> it by companies and people who work in the project out of
>> their own interest.
>>>
>
>> I do not remember any case, in which a permanent inactive PMC member
>> "jumps out of the box" to influence a voting.
>
> I have not mentioned any names (elsewhere) because I do not want to turn
> against people, because I don't hold them responsible for what companies have
> done.
> On the other hand, why is it merit for people if they have only done their
> paid job...
At the Foundation we expect that everyone working on a project are doing so as
individuals and any merit attained is as an individual. [1] In the initial
formation of a project at The ASF the original PMC and Committers is often
determined in part by those entities who are bringing the donation to the
Foundation. Incubation is about helping project communities to work in the
“Apache Way”. [2] OpenOffice.org’s proposal was unique in that the Initial
Committer list was made open for all those who were interested. I signed up as
interested as did some other members of the Apache POI PMC (we were interested
in MSFT document compatibility). I took it upon myself to help with
Infrastructure like the websites, confluence wikis, and domain names.
>
> For me, and this may be my personal opinion, one must not put good agreement
> above success - you have to find a balance between both things.
>
>> The influence of enterprises were drastic in the
>> moment they stopped supporting us.
>
> Exactly, and why are no consequences drawn? The problem was not that the
> company stopped its support, but that one company was doing it at absolutely
> the wrong time and under the wrong circumstances.
When IBM withdrew support it did not mean that PMC Members who were employed by
IBM stopped contributing. They stopped as individuals slowly over time.
We had one PMC Chair who seriously started a discussion about shutting down the
project. Yet, we still continue. All as volunteers - as far as we know.
>
> Where was the PMC in this situation? Where was the attempt to influence?
> Where was the will to discuss things openly with the community?
Personally I was very busy elsewhere. IMO there was a lot of shock and it took
some time for the project to recover and continue producing releases.
>
>
>
>
> Enough for today, because I feel that any attempt at critical discussion here
> is only perceived as disturbing.
Not necessarily. It would be a little easier if you started a separate thread
;-)
Regards,
Dave
[1] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#hats
[2] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
[3]
https://community.apache.org/projectIndependence.html#apache-projects-are-managed-independently
>
>
>
> greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
>
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