On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 at 17:21, Daniel Gruno <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 2022-10-19 17:20, sebb wrote: > > > I agree that the podling does not need to *learn* anything from the > > Incubator. > > > > However, the Incubator is also supposed to be where podlings grow > > their community. > > I think it is wrong to excuse the podling from the requirement to > > build a community before leaving the Incubator. > > > > What will we say to other podlings that fail to gather enough > > community but are otherwise 'ready' to graduate? > > I think this is a dangerous precedent. > > I am not advocating that this is the new normal, but it *is* the normal > for these sort of projects. They just do not attract many contributors. > There are *millions* of weekly visits to lists.apache.org, there are > many other pony mail installations out there, and yet there is a very > limited desire to contribute, just as we see it with other mailing list > systems of the same type.
In which case maybe it is not a suitable candidate for an ASF project. > > > >> With my board hat on, I know that I am going to be asking, soon, where > >> the new contributors are hiding. > >> > >> As a PPMC member, +1, but, at the same time, I acknowledge that I am > >> an absentee member of the project, and I don't, realistically, expect > >> that to change in the coming year, despite my oft-repeated goal of > >> sitting down to learn the code more, and see where I can contribute. > >> > >> As to Sebb's remark about lack of response, for myself I can only say > >> "ApacheCon". I am *still* doing ApacheCon wrapup, and the last 2 > >> months have been all ApacheCon, all the time. > > > > In which case, I suggest waiting a month or so and trying again. > > There is no need to rush this through. > > No one is suggesting that this be rushed. My personal intentions were > and still remain to be trying for a graduation in November or December. > > > > > It is quite time-consuming to graduate a podling, and also > > time-consuming to retire a PMC. > > With regards to the social bits (discussing, voting on and formalizing > graduation), sure. > With regards to the technical bits, graduation is > essentially a 15 minute job due to the improved tooling over the years. I challenge that estimate. A graduation normally involves multiple JIRA issues, and can take several days to complete, assuming nothing goes wrong or is overlooked. There is also the Board resolution, changes to website, setting up the PMC RDF file. That is not all, for example there might be a press announcement. This involves multiple people. Yes, there is some tooling that speeds up parts of the process, but that overlooks all the bits that need to be done to set it in motion. > I'll not get into the retiring part, as I think that's a tad premature :-). That really depends on whether a functioning PMC can be established and maintained. > > We need to be reasonably sure that the podling has sufficient > > community to operate before starting graduation. > > If by 'sufficient community' you mean "being able to respond to issues > in a timely manner", then I think we have that. I can't think of any > instances where the ball has been dropped on any important matters. > > There are both volunteer and corporate-backed interests in keeping this > project afloat. That may be so, but there is little actual evidence for this as yet. > > > > Sebb >
