Fwiw I’m +1 when the vote happens. On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 at 18:41, sebb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Oct 2022 at 17:21, Daniel Gruno <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 2022-10-19 17:20, sebb wrote: > > > > > I agree that the podling does not need to *learn* anything from the > Incubator. > > > > > > However, the Incubator is also supposed to be where podlings grow > > > their community. > > > I think it is wrong to excuse the podling from the requirement to > > > build a community before leaving the Incubator. > > > > > > What will we say to other podlings that fail to gather enough > > > community but are otherwise 'ready' to graduate? > > > I think this is a dangerous precedent. > > > > I am not advocating that this is the new normal, but it *is* the normal > > for these sort of projects. They just do not attract many contributors. > > There are *millions* of weekly visits to lists.apache.org, there are > > many other pony mail installations out there, and yet there is a very > > limited desire to contribute, just as we see it with other mailing list > > systems of the same type. > > In which case maybe it is not a suitable candidate for an ASF project. > > > > > > >> With my board hat on, I know that I am going to be asking, soon, where > > >> the new contributors are hiding. > > >> > > >> As a PPMC member, +1, but, at the same time, I acknowledge that I am > > >> an absentee member of the project, and I don't, realistically, expect > > >> that to change in the coming year, despite my oft-repeated goal of > > >> sitting down to learn the code more, and see where I can contribute. > > >> > > >> As to Sebb's remark about lack of response, for myself I can only say > > >> "ApacheCon". I am *still* doing ApacheCon wrapup, and the last 2 > > >> months have been all ApacheCon, all the time. > > > > > > In which case, I suggest waiting a month or so and trying again. > > > There is no need to rush this through. > > > > No one is suggesting that this be rushed. My personal intentions were > > and still remain to be trying for a graduation in November or December. > > > > > > > > It is quite time-consuming to graduate a podling, and also > > > time-consuming to retire a PMC. > > > > With regards to the social bits (discussing, voting on and formalizing > > graduation), sure. > > > With regards to the technical bits, graduation is > > essentially a 15 minute job due to the improved tooling over the years. > > I challenge that estimate. > > A graduation normally involves multiple JIRA issues, and can take > several days to complete, assuming nothing goes wrong or is > overlooked. > There is also the Board resolution, changes to website, setting up the > PMC RDF file. > That is not all, for example there might be a press announcement. > > This involves multiple people. > > Yes, there is some tooling that speeds up parts of the process, but > that overlooks all the bits that need to be done to set it in motion. > > > I'll not get into the retiring part, as I think that's a tad premature > :-). > > That really depends on whether a functioning PMC can be established > and maintained. > > > > We need to be reasonably sure that the podling has sufficient > > > community to operate before starting graduation. > > > > If by 'sufficient community' you mean "being able to respond to issues > > in a timely manner", then I think we have that. I can't think of any > > instances where the ball has been dropped on any important matters. > > > > There are both volunteer and corporate-backed interests in keeping this > > project afloat. > > That may be so, but there is little actual evidence for this as yet. > > > > > > > Sebb > > >
