Hey Reynold, I hear your pain - trust me I do - but at the same time it doesn't make sense to half complete bringing the community over. Mailing list conversation (especially user oriented ones) are one of the core portions of open source communities at least in my experience.
There are not really many hard requirements here at the ASF -- there are social norms and memes and old fuddy duddies like me who share those memes and information with people to try and encourage open source best practice, while at the same time trying not to disturb all the awesomeness going on that you guys are leading. With that, how many users are we talking about on the user mailing list at this point? Can you give me an exact count? I'm willing to spend the time to get people migrated now. Then, migrating later from [email protected] to [email protected] will be really less of a hassle and a lot less difficult since we are really moving from ezmlm to ezmlm. Also with the $podling.i.a.o namespace I think even now we can use spark.apache.org (*think*) which in turn could cause even less hassle later. In addition, like I said, when we graduate to TLP I'll also be happy to contribute time towards making the migration as seamless as possible. Cheers, Chris ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: [email protected] WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: Reynold Xin <[email protected]> Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Date: Friday, June 28, 2013 4:08 PM To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Cc: Andy Konwinski <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Mailing list transition (was Re: Apache Spark podling: Created!) >Hi Chris, > >There are a lot of user preferences set by them (e.g. individual emails vs >batch) that wouldn't work when you just "import". If user list is not an >absolute requirement for the incubator, it would make sense to delay >the migration of user lists until we are graduating to a TLP. > > >On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Andy et al., >> >> Why don't we just collect the current subscribers to the Google Group, >> get them to me, and I'll subscribe them to the ASF new lists? I'm happy >> to create a user list here at the ASF for the project, and to migrate >> the users. Then all they would have to do is remember to use the new >> email when addressing. A change, yes, I know, but still a minimal one. >> >> That OK? >> >> Cheers, >> Chris >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> Senior Computer Scientist >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> Email: [email protected] >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Andy Konwinski <[email protected]> >> Date: Friday, June 28, 2013 2:04 PM >> To: jpluser <[email protected]> >> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, >> "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: Mailing list transition (was Re: Apache Spark podling: >> Created!) >> >> >+ [email protected] to loop in those who haven't >> >subscribed to [email protected] yet, (also because my emails are getting >> >bounced by Apache's spam filters). >> > >> >I wanted to respond here in the conversation about the mailing list >> >migration that was happening on the email thread called "Re: A wiki for >> >Spark (on Apache infra)"... >> > >> >Assuming that we Apache requires us to migrate from google groups to >> >lists on Apache infra, we might consider waiting to migrating the users >> >list to apache infra until after we graduate to a TLP, so that we only >> >have to migrate it once. >> > >> > >> >Here's why. I assume with each list migration that requires subscribers >> >to do work, we will lose some subscribers. If we ask them to migrate to >> >an incubator user list now and then again to yet a different list when >>we >> >graduate to a TLP (which we hope to >> > do fairly quickly), it seems like we will irritate and lose strictly >> >more subscribers. >> > >> > >> >This requirement to migrate infra twice as part of moving to Apache >>seems >> >a bit hard on communities. It also seems like a requirement that will >>go >> >away if the changes you are pushing for to the incubation process (i.e. >> >podling TLPs) actually ever happen. >> > >> > >> >Anyway, I see our options as: >> > >> > >> >1. Migrate only the dev list now (since this is a smaller core group >>that >> >is more likely to migrate with us) and wait to create an apache users >> >list until we graduate and migrate from the users google group then. >>Con: >> >it's confusing to have user and dev >> > lists on different infra. >> > >> >2. Move the users list now, in which case we go with the migration >>plan I >> >proposed earlier. Con: migrating users list twice = more irritating to >> >users. >> > >> >Andy >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >On Fri, Jun 28, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) >> ><[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >Hi Andy, >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> > >> >From: Andy Konwinski <[email protected]> >> >Reply-To: "[email protected]" >> ><[email protected]> >> >Date: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 10:18 AM >> >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> >Subject: Re: Apache Spark podling: Created! >> > >> >>This is great. >> >> >> >>Quick question about mailing lists: Spark also has a >> >>spark-users<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/spark-users> >> >>google >> >>group. Can we also get a [email protected] mailing list to have >> somewhere >> >>to migrate that group? Do I need to create an infra issue for this? >> > >> >OK, cool yeah I think I requested commits and dev as lists earlier, but >> >didn't request a user one. To request a new list, you go here: >> > >> >https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq/incubator >> > >> > >> >Did you request a list yet? Should i? >> > >> >(BTW sorry about the delay in responding was at a DARPA meeting all >>week >> >in >> >DC an am just back in California now catching up on everything). >> > >> > >> >> >> >>Also, we should discuss a strategy, and timeline for migrating the >> >>mailing >> >>lists over to the new ones. >> >> >> >>As far as a strategy, here are the steps I can think of that will help >> >>make >> >>for a smooth transition: >> >> >> >> 1. Request users list on apache infra (done) >> >> 2. Pick a day/time for the switch (how about July 1, assuming >> >> [email protected] is set up by then) >> >> 3. At Switch time: >> >> 1. Make announcements on the dev and users mailing lists with >>links >> >> to the new lists, instructions on how to subscribe, and a note >> >>saying all >> >> conversations are moving over to that list. >> >> 2. Update the website with links to the new lists >> >> 3. Enable an auto responders on those lists with pointers to the >> >>new >> >> apache lists >> > >> >Perfect! That's correct Andy. >> > >> >Cheers, >> >Chris >> > >> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> >Senior Computer Scientist >> >NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> >Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> >Email: [email protected] >> >WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> >University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:03 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >> >>[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> CC'ing [email protected]: our first email to the dev list! :) >> >>> >> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> >>> Senior Computer Scientist >> >>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> >>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> >>> Email: [email protected] >> >>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> >>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Henry Saputra <[email protected]> >> >>> Date: Friday, June 21, 2013 4:51 PM >> >>> To: jpluser <[email protected]> >> >>> Cc: Matt Massie <[email protected]>, Reynold Xin >> >>> <[email protected]>, Matei Zaharia <[email protected]>, Ankur Dave >> >>> <[email protected]>, Tathagata Das <[email protected]>, >>Haoyuan >> >>>Li >> >>> <[email protected]>, Josh Rosen <[email protected]>, >> >>> Shivaram Venkataraman <[email protected]>, Mosharaf >>Chowdhury >> >>> <[email protected]>, Charles Reiss >><[email protected]>, >> >>> Andy Konwinski <[email protected]>, Patrick Wendell >> >>> <[email protected]>, Imran Rashid <[email protected]>, >> Ryan >> >>> LeCompte <[email protected]>, Ravi Pandya >> >>><[email protected]>, >> >>> Ram Sriharsha <[email protected]>, Robert Evans >> >>> <[email protected]>, Mridul Muralidharan <[email protected]>, >> >>>Thomas >> >>> Dudziak <[email protected]>, Mark Hamstra >> >>> <[email protected]>, Stephen Haberman >> >>><[email protected]>, >> >>> Jason Dai <[email protected]>, Shane Huang >><[email protected] >> >, >> >>> Andrew xia <[email protected]>, Nick Pentreath >> >>> <[email protected]>, Sean McNamara >> >>><[email protected]>, >> >>> "Ramirez, Paul M (398J)" <[email protected]>, Roman >> >>>Shaposhnik >> >>> <[email protected]>, Suresh Marru <[email protected]>, "Hart, Andrew F >> >>> (398J)" <[email protected]> >> >>> Subject: Re: Apache Spark podling: Created! >> >>> >> >>> >Thanks for driving this forward Chris, awesome as usual! =) >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >The mailing lists are ready: >> >>> >[email protected] >> >>> >[email protected] >> >>> > >> >>> >[email protected] >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >You can subscribe by sending email to: >> >>> >[email protected] >> >>> >[email protected] >> >>> >[email protected] -> This is moderated >> and >> >>> >only Sparks' committers, PPMC could subscribe to it. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >Hopefully we could start communicating using the dev@ list starting >> >>>next >> >>> >week. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >For those new to ASF, welcome! =) >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >Thanks, >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >Henry >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 1:41 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) >> >>> ><[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >Hi Everyone, >> >>> > >> >>> >Just to double check: does everyone have an Apache Individual >> >>> >Contributor License Agreement (ICLA) on file? If you don't please >> >>> >head over to: >> >>> > >> >>> >http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >Please fill that out and then submit to >> >[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> >>> > >> >>> >I'll make sure that everyone's account gets created and that >> >>> >karma for the Git repo is set up based on that, working with >> >>> >infra. I or any of the other mentors can help with this too. >> >>> > >> >>> >Cheers, >> >>> >Chris >> >>> > >> >>> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> >Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> >>> >Senior Computer Scientist >> >>> >NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> >>> >Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> >>> >Email: [email protected] >> >>> >WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> >>> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> >Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> >>> >University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> >>> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >-----Original Message----- >> >>> >From: <Mattmann>, jpluser <[email protected]> >> >>> >Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:16 PM >> >>> >To: jpluser <[email protected]> >> >>> >Cc: Matt Massie <[email protected]>, Reynold Xin >> >>> ><[email protected]>, Matei Zaharia <[email protected]>, Ankur >>Dave >> >>> ><[email protected]>, Tathagata Das <[email protected]>, >> Haoyuan >> >>>Li >> >>> ><[email protected]>, Josh Rosen <[email protected]>, >> >>> Reynold >> >>> >Xin <[email protected]>, Shivaram Venkataraman >> >>> ><[email protected]>, Mosharaf Chowdhury >> >>> ><[email protected]>, Charles Reiss >><[email protected] >> >, >> >>> >Andy Konwinski <[email protected]>, Patrick Wendell >> >>> ><[email protected]>, Imran Rashid <[email protected]>, >> >>>Ryan >> >>> >LeCompte <[email protected]>, Ravi Pandya >> >>><[email protected] >> >>> >, >> >>> >Ram Sriharsha <[email protected]>, Robert Evans >> >>> ><[email protected]>, Mridul Muralidharan <[email protected]>, >> >>> Thomas >> >>> >Dudziak <[email protected]>, Mark Hamstra >> >>> ><[email protected]>, Stephen Haberman >> >>><[email protected]>, >> >>> >Jason Dai <[email protected]>, Shane Huang >> >>><[email protected]>, >> >>> >Andrew xia <[email protected]>, Nick Pentreath >> >>> ><[email protected]>, Sean McNamara >> >>><[email protected]> >> >>> >Subject: Apache Spark podling: Created! >> >>> > >> >>> >>Hi Everyone, >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Until our mailing lists are created, will have to just reply all >> >>> >>to this list :) >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Apache Spark (incubating) now is created! See: >> >>> >> >> >>> >>http://s.apache.org/yRh >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Yay! Thanks for the support in getting this started! I've gone >> >>> >>ahead and filed the requisite INFRA tasks: >> >>> >> >> >>> >>https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-6417 >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>per: >> >>> >> >> >>> >>http://www.apache.org/dev/infra-contact#requesting-podling >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>You can follow the bootstrap process at INFRA-6417, by >> >>> >>putting yourself on the watch list for the issue. Now >> >>> >>I'll work with infra@ to get everything set up in terms of >> >>> >>mailing lists, etc, and then I'd appreciate everyone helping >> >>> >>in terms of letting folks know to migrate on the existing >> >>> >>email lists, and helping to work with me to get Git version >> >>> >>history transferred over, and to start moving the project >> >>> >>into the ASF. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>One other thing, Matei: it would be really nice to do a >> >>> >>software grant on this: >> >>> >> >> >>> >>http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>From maybe AMPLab (and anyone else). Can you help take >> >>> >>the lead in getting that submitted to the Apache Secretary and >> >>> >>CC me? >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Thanks guys! Progress :) >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Our first Incubator PMC report is due in July. I'll prod and >> >>> >>help put it together. Until then, time to start transitioning >> >>> >>and helping to get the project moved on over. >> >>> >> >> >>> >>Cheers, >> >>> >>Chris >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> >>Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> >>> >>Senior Computer Scientist >> >>> >>NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> >>> >>Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> >>> >>Email: [email protected] >> >>> >>WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> >>> >>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> >>Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> >>> >>University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> >>> >>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >>
