On Saturday 25 November 2006 07:43, Bernd Eilers wrote: > Graham wrote: > > On Friday 24 November 2006 21:30, Kay Ramme - Sun Germany - Hamburg > > wrote: > > Hi there!
Hi Bernd, This is brilliant, many thanks. > > >>Hi John, > >> > >>John McCreesh wrote: > >>>On Thu, 2006-11-23 at 10:29 +0100, Kay Ramme - Sun Germany - Hamburg > >>> > >>>wrote: > >>>>John, > >>>> > >>>>I would like to request for the UDK project as what Ingrid requested > >>>> for the Chart. The UDK already is available as a 'standalone' > >>>> component, namely as the URE (Uno Runtime Environment). > > The point I would like to repeat because I think that it was overread by > some on this thread is that the "UDK already is available as a > 'standalone' component'". > > What this basically means it that what we do have here is a "second > product" besides OpenOffice.org itself that is offered here and IMHO it > is a very valid request to make this second product visible on the MAIN > page. [... snip lots of good stuff] > Basically what´s being asked here for is to get those bricks which are > our "second product" on the main-page. Can we do that please? Ok now the fog is clearing > > The think is people don´t even know about the "second product". And why > not => because it´s not present on the main page. That's probably part of it but not all it seems to me [...] > > >>>where is ooure? > > Basically the "second product" to download is here: > http://api.openoffice.org/SDK/index.html > > >>URE (Uno Runtime Environment) is just an abbreviation for a collection > >>of tools and libraries OOo depends on. Unfortunately names have not been > >>chosen well (UDK, URE etc.), so I am planning to fix this. > > > > I understand what John is saying here and for the majority of the users > > of the website what he says is bang on the money. > > The majority of users would benefit much if there was a bunch of > OpenOffice.org extensions. But that will only happen if we start > "selling" our other product which will enable that to happen. Yep I'm seeing that now > > >>As I said, Uno (URE) is the foundation of OOo, if you do not know about > >>it, that is sad :-( > > The technology I am talking about is being described here: > http://udk.openoffice.org/ Wow this has to come under the title of Worlds Best Kept Secrets > > This page in turn contains the link to the other page with the download > link for our "second product" mentioned above. > > That´s why we should get a link to http://udk.openoffice.org/ on the > main page. > > > Heh, well be sad for me too, because I have little idea about such > > ethereal matters either > > That´s probably because you´ve probably never had the need to enhance > documents with Basic Macros or tried to enhance them using other > programming languages or wanted to offer extensions for OpenOffice.org > but maybe it could also be that you didn´t know that you could do that > because we do have a lack of "marketing" for our "second product". Definitely the latter > > Anyway if you are not interested in that other product fine, but I am > quite sure others out there could be intrested, but only if we tell them > of course. > > I know that by using words like "ethereal matters" you try to get kind > of sarcastical Not being sarcastic, just trying to emphasise my lack of knowledge >and want to underline the point that typical end user of > OpenOffice.org is not really interested in the inner workings of the > program. But I on the other hand think that the information about that > we do have a technology that enables creating extensions in various > programming language is even of interest to everyone and would it only > be for the typical OOo end-user to jump to searching for such available > extensions from knowing that there is a product available helping others > to create them. [...] > >>From my point of view OOo is build up by its > >>accepted projects, so these accepted projects very well have the right > >>to attend to interest. > > > > I'm sorry, I don't understand this > > Message here was I think that the OOo community does not only contain > end-users and marketing folks but also a lot of other "accepted > projects" besids marketing doing well "work" and that those others do > try to voice their interests is only natural. > Agreed, but I think that you'll find the Marketing guys realise that better than most. One of the biggest problems in the Marketing project is that everyone figures they can tell the world about their particular thing better than anyone including the marketers. This whole discussion is a good example... much of what is being discussed should be happening on the marketing list. But then that is why we subscribe to so many lists outside our area of expertise. :) > > [ ... snip ...] > > The text I do reply to next was talking about a different topic > "attracting developers" to contribute to OOo. But it fits well with the > > "second product" thing so I am just repurposing it: > > I know that marketing is probably a dirty word amongst developers but > > what we have here is the need for simple marketing procedures > > > > Identify your market > > 1.) Developers ( OpenSource as well as commercial ISVs ) which do want > to create extensions. > > 2.) Developers of other Software ( OpenSource developers as well as > commercial ISVs ) > which could make use of a component technology that enables them to use > different programming languages at the same time or some other technical > features UNO offers inside their own product. > > 3.) Creators of complicated OpenOffice.or documents which do enhance > those documents by using OpenOffice.org´s Application Programming > Language Interface together with one of the programming languages that´s > currently supported by UNO the technology inside OpenOffice.org that > besides doing other things allows end-users to do just that use > programming to enhance documents. > > 4.) ISVs that want to incorporate OpenOffice.org into some specialized > solution for their customers. > > 5.) Developers who are searching for a challenging OpenSource topic to > contribute to I would add marketing guys who would like to add functionality for a particular customer, I am definitely on that list > > > Identify their needs/desires > > 1.) They need documention and libraries which enables them to do their > work. We do already have that, it´s our "second product" > http://api.openoffice.org/SDK/index.html > > 2.) Some of them might need more detailed information about the new > extension mechanism of OOo which is currently on > http://extensions.openoffice.org and IMHO not yet prominent enough too. Ok this fits with ESR's "Scratching an itch", but we don't want just that, we want people that scratch someone elses itch.. (Erk I just got a visual of that! ;) )... in other words people who will contribute extensions that are outside their own immediate need and or people who will contribute extensions they have created for themselves back to the community. The needs/desires I'm talking about are more about at a personal level that will encourage them to contribute. What you describe above is about making it easy to contribute but does nothing to increase the desire. I hope I'm communicating this right. If I'm slipping into colloquialisms smack me upside the head. :) The question is "Where/what is the reward?" > > > Identify how we can fill those needs/desires > > Simply by offering that "second product". > > > and tell them. > > Which we currently don´t do agressivly enough. Because IMHO the very > basic thing is missing: there´s not even a reference on the main page > that hints to it. It's not about aggressive it's about being smart. Right now we need to get smarter, this goes way beyond a link on the front page. > > As Kay said part of the success of a competitors product is a wide range > of available extensions for it. To be able to compete we should more > agressivley market our "second product" which is the enabler for the > future availibility of more OpenOffice.org extensions. Availibilty of > specialized extensions is a benefit to OOo end-users. OK, the preamble explains Kay's reference to me, many thanks, Bernd. Interestingly we now come to the "needs-desires" thing. The Opposition can do what it does by appealing to the lowest common... Money. It has developers because they pay them. Outside developers work to get money from Users and maybe in the hope one day of getting that letter that says "Come Work For Us and we'll pay you the national debt of several third world nations" They use money to satisfy a "need" people then use that to achieve a "desire". It isn't as black and white as that, I know, but it get's me to where I'm going. We, however (and this is common right through FOSS) appeal to more ethereal parts of the human condition. The problem is that it's not as easy to quantify as numbers in a bank account. Rewards are more emotional and intellectual. Money only goes so far in the "needs/desires" stakes. > > Having that "second product" being used in other software would also be > a good thing because this would most likely result in more developers > wanting to participate in enhancing that "second product" istself which > is an integral part of our "main product" benefiting everyone again. > > So can we somehow get that "second product" on the main page and > probably start some other marketing efforts for it? I'm all for that, the pamphlet was a start on this that I didn't realise at the time > > The thing that the team working on that thing likes to find ways to > attract potential developers better like every other team also does is > of course also there and as valid as for every other team. But the thing > that the UDK project is offering a "second product" makes that distinct > and makes it even more urgent to have this project become prominent on > the main page. Sometimes developers are not good at being loud, aggressive and pushy. That's what you have marketing people for! I feel a campaign coming on... WHY UNO? John? :) > > Kind regards, > Bernd Eilers Cheers and thanks for the excellent response G -- Graham Lauder, OpenOffice.org MarCon (Marketing Contact) NZ http://marketing.openoffice.org/contacts.html "GET LEGAL - GET OPENOFFICE.ORG" http://why.openoffice.org ISO 26300 compliant "GET DRESSED - GET OOOGEAR" http://www.ooogear.co.nz Promotional gear for the discerning OOo Advocate --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
