> if you stick to darknet only and ppl only trade refs with their friends, > then there wouldnt be a bigger darknet > only a few hundered really small darknet with no content to very little > content, the dark index on the main page > would be useless from start since you are only connected to your friends > and they dont have it either since they are > only connected to you. > > its quite dumb to think i connect to a friend who connects to a friend > who connects to a friend ifinite so everyone > gets connected to each others in the end, which would never happen, > thats why ppl trade in freenet-refs. > > Or perhaps you dont have friends that runs/want to run a freenet node, > then you would have world smalles darknet with 1 node. > > I never spoke about connecting only to your friends. I'm perfectly aware that most of the users don't even have only one real friend in their peer list.
When I said that some of them share their in private, I meant simply in a IRC private discusion (-> "/msg Toto Here is my ref: http://dark-code.bulix.org/sjvje-24cs";), so nobody else (except the network operators of course) could get the refs. And when I said that I can go discuss with my peers when there is a problem, it's not because they are my friends (I know only some of my peers, not all), but just because I know where I met them and where we share our refs. (and even if I can't find them, I can send them a message with the node). And if they don't answer me, I can even decide to disconnect from them, or deactivate the connection between us. For all I know, this would be impossible on an opennet. > Jerome Flesch wrote: > >> I really don't understand all of this fretting and hand-wringing > >> about opennet. Its basically nothing more than a vastly better way > >> for people to do what they are already doing today with hideous (but > >> regrettably necessary) kludges like #freenet-refs and http://refex.s- > >> coding.nl/. > > > > But there are some differences: > > > > With an opennet: > > Imagine that a gouvernement, like China or France, decides to prevent the > > access to the opennet: They would just have to fetch as many as possible > > IPs, and then filter massively these IP (--> all the opennet and > > opennet/darknet nodes). They would have no difficulties to do that with > > an opennet, they could easily update their blacklist, and they could even > > find some unwise Freenet users in their own country. > > I don't know if it's really possible in China, but it would probably be > > in France if the gouvernement really want to. > > > > > > With a darknet: > > Firstly, people don't share their refs only on #freenet-refs, but also on > > #freenet-refs, the Frost board "freenet-refs", and hopefully, in private. > > It would make an automatic process really harder to define. Correction: "It makes an automatic process really harder to define" (wrong tense, sorry) > > Secondly, even if they try to fetch as many as possible refs, there are > > the already-established nodes which won't be found since their owners > > don't have anymore to share their refs. > > And to finish, most of the users have a changing IP, making the > > filtration harder. > > > > Another point is that an user can know its peers: I know that most of the > > current freenet users doesn't care about this possibility. But for my > > part, I find that really really great. For example, when one of my peers > > is too often backed off, I can discuss with him/her on IRC to try to > > solve this problem. > > > > At the moment, I think the darknet is a really great particularity of > > Freenet. It's one of the things, which make it really singular. > > > > But I'm not entirely against an opennet: Indeed, an opennet could bring > > us more users. And if a gouvernement decides to block the access to > > Freenet, they will probably only filter the opennet, and omit the > > darknet. However, if you implement opennet, I think it would be a good > > thing to add to the wiki a list of the countries where the opennet can be > > used safely and where it's not. > > > >> Opennet has the following advantages over what people are using now: > >> > >> - Several orders of magnitude more convenient for users (allowing > >> ease of use approaching or exceeding mainstream P2P apps) > >> - Decentralized and scalable > >> - Should lead to vastly better network topology > >> - We control it so we can take measures to make it more difficult to > >> corrupt > >> > >> Disadvantages? Relative to what people are using now - none that I > >> can think of. > >> > >> Some people may wish we lived in a fantasy world where everyone was > >> willing to go through the trouble of carefully establishing trusted > >> darknet connections, but we don't live in this world, and denying the > >> clear advantages of opennet to our userbase will not lead to that > >> fantasy. > >> > >> Ian. > >> > >> Ian Clarke: Co-Founder & Chief Scientist Revver, Inc. > >> phone: 323.871.2828 | personal blog - http://locut.us/blog -- Jerome Flesch.
