On 03/12/2012 08:32 PM, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
"Adam D. Ruppe"<destructiona...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:npkazdoslxiuqxiin...@forum.dlang.org...
On Monday, 12 March 2012 at 23:23:13 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
at the end of the day, you're still saying "fuck you" to millions of
people.
...for little to no reason. It's not like making 99% of
sites work without javascript takes *any* effort.
*Exactly*. And nobody can tell me otherwise because *I DO* exactly that sort
of web development. Plus, it often makes for a *worse* user experience even
when JS is on - look at Vladimir's D forums vs reddit. Vladimir put reddit
to shame *on reddit*, for god's sake! And how many man-hours of effort do
you think went into those D forums vs reddit?
Indeed, going without javascript is often desirable
anyway, since no JS sites are /much/ faster than script
heavy sites.
Yup. Guess I already responded to this in the paragraph above :)
It's not about the speed. It's about behaviour.
Imagine I do I blog site and want people to leave comments. I decide the
best thing for the user is to just enter the comment in a text area,
press a button, and have the comment turn into a text block, and say
something like "Comment saved!". From a UI perspective, it's the most
reasonable thing to do: you leave a comment, it becomes a definitive
comment on the blog, that's it.
The implementation is straightforward (much more if I use something like
knockoutjs): I post the comment to the server via javascript and on the
callback, turn that "editing comment" into a definitive comment. Note
that only the comment contents were transfered between the client and
the server.
Now, I have to support people who don't like javascript (and that people
ONLY includes developers, as most people don't even know the difference
between google and a web browser).
To implement that I have to check for disabled javascript, and post the
comment to a different url that will save the comment and redirect to
the same page. First, it's a strange experience for the user: navigating
to another page while it's really going to the same page, just with one
more comment (and how can I make it scroll without javascript to let the
user see the comment just created? Or should I implement an intermediate
page saying "here's your newly created comment, now go back to the
post"). Second, the whole page is transferred again! I can't see how in
the world that is faster than not transferring anything at all.
I know, I had to transfer some javascript. But just once, since it'll be
cached by the server. In fact, if the page has a static html which
invokes javascript that makes callbacks, that's the most efficient thing
to do. Because even if your comments change, the whole page remains the
same: elements will be rendered after *just* the comment's content (in
JSON) are transferred.
Again, I don't understand how that is slower than transferring whole
pages the whole time.
