Hi Amanda et al., thanks, this is a nice discussion!
I try to distinguish between "zero entry" and more advanced workshops as clearly as possible, but of course problems happen in both directions for the advanced workshops - too advanced, and too beginner. One strategy that (I think) Greg suggested a long time ago was to suggest that the too-advanced people help out with the too-beginner people when a TA wasn't available. Of course this can go wrong as well, but I think when it goes well it's quite nice. cheers, --titus On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 03:46:12PM +0000, Amanda Charbonneau wrote: > I actually had a similar problem, but with an intro workshop that I had > already pared down considerably because I knew the learners were skewed > towards *very* beginners. Even with the simplified material, I had a > handful of people who couldn't keep up, people who had to hover a single > finger back and forth over the keyboard to locate each letter. > This handful of people comprised about a quarter of the attendees, and > the advertising clearly said that the course was for learners who have > little to no prior computational experience, so they hadn't really gone to > the wrong course level. It was just that their interpretation of no prior > computational experience was very different from what SWC expects. It felt > wrong to just press on without them, so I slowed everything down to a > crawl, but I also felt extremely bad that we only got partway through any > of the material. > > Sorry I don't have a solution, just commiseration. > > -amanda > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 11:24 AM Peter Steinbach <steinb...@scionics.de> > wrote: > > > Hi April, > > > > thanks for your insights. As a matter of fact, in my case the local > > organizers were very forthcoming and implemented a pre-assessment form > > before the workshop. Still, I had the feeling during the workshop that > > this pre-assessment only covered the tip of the iceberg (as expected). > > > > I guess the trade-off who to bore and whom to carry through is always on > > the plate of the instructor. I'd have to say that being in a team of 2 > > helps at this point tremendously as the co-instructor is among the > > "students" and simply can assist here and there. > > > > If people have more feedback on the matter, I am happy to hear it. If > > not, my gratitude to those that replied already. > > > > Best, > > Peter > > > > On 10/27/2015 03:27 PM, April Wright wrote: > > > Hi Peter- > > > > > > I've been in this exact same situation, though with a departmental > > > workshop, rather than an SWC one. It's hard, and I'm sorry that happened > > to > > > you. > > > > > > Since you're SWC, I think the first thing to do is ask the host. Often, > > the > > > host has some specific ideas about what they want the learners to come > > away > > > with, and that can help you steer the course. > > > > > > What I did, in practice, was this: I spent way too much time helping > > > novices. I slowed down, got through less than half of the material, and > > the > > > intermediates, who had actually chosen the correct class and paid a > > nominal > > > fee for it were very unsatisfied. I really think that I made the wrong > > call > > > by punishing people who carefully read the sign-up and prioritizing those > > > who didn't. There are a lot of resources out there to help people take > > the > > > first steps in programming. There are fewer to help with the 'what's > > next', > > > and I should have been more sensitive to that fact. What I should have > > done > > > is told people who were working on novice-level skills that they were > > > welcome to stay and work, but that people working on the course material > > > would be assisted first. > > > > > > On the next go around, I added a list of skills the learners needed to be > > > comfortable with to attend (previously, it had simply been a link to the > > > previous workshop) and a code snippet one of the students had written. I > > > let them know that this was the level of familiarity they needed to have > > *with > > > Python* to attend, and that TAs would preferentially assist those who > > were > > > mastering course skills over those who were mastering other material. > > > > > > That worked, I only had one person for whom the course was inappropriate > > > (they were too high level) show up. > > > > > > --a > > > > > > --------- > > > Postdoctoral Researcher > > > Iowa State University, EEOB > > > University of Kansas, EEB > > > 251 Bessey Hall > > > Ames, IA 50011 > > > 512.940.5761 > > > http://wrightaprilm.github.io/ > > > <http://wrightaprilm.github.io/pages/about_me.html> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Michael J Jackson < > > micha...@epcc.ed.ac.uk> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Peter, > > >> > > >> If there are more people falling behind than you have helpers to handle, > > >> then I'd just slow down. I'd (reluctantly) rather bore those who don't > > want > > >> a slower pace, than confuse those do. > > >> > > >> cheers, > > >> mike > > >> > > >> > > >> Quoting Peter Steinbach <steinb...@scionics.de> on Tue, 27 Oct 2015 > > >> 11:39:01 +0100: > > >> > > >> Hi Raniere et al, > > >>> > > >>> thanks for the pointers for recording the terminal history, I'd like to > > >>> get back to my more general question though ... how to give > > participants > > >>> that are not up to the level of the course a chance to follow? I don't > > >>> wanna drag them all through, at some point there has to be a limit for > > the > > >>> sake of the remaining crowd. But still, I'd like to hear people's > > >>> experience on this. > > >>> > > >>> Best, > > >>> Peter > > >>> > > >>> On 10/27/2015 11:23 AM, Raniere Silva wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Hi Peter, > > >>>> > > >>>> Could you share these scripts? > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Please check > > >>>> > > >>>> > > https://github.com/swcarpentry/site/pull/1124/files#diff-9e17f2fd404c84648654a4fc54a9a2ecR71 > > >>>> . > > >>>> We are going to publish it this week. > > >>>> > > >>>> I'd like to see if they'd capture a nano screen etc > > >>>>> (I presume not, but I'd like to try them anyhow). > > >>>>> Apologies if they were already shared with this community and I > > >>>>> overlooked them. > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> There are terminal screen recorder that can capture nano > > >>>> but from my experience they don't work for what you want. =( > > >>>> > > >>>> Cheers, > > >>>> Raniere > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Peter Steinbach, Dr. rer. nat. > > >>> HPC Developer, Scientific Computing Facility > > >>> > > >>> Scionics Computer Innovation GmbH > > >>> L??scherstr. 16 > > >>> 01309 Dresden > > >>> Germany > > >>> > > >>> phone +49 351 210 2882 > > >>> fax +49 351 202 707 04 > > >>> www.scionics.de > > >>> > > >>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Dresden (Main office) > > >>> Amtsgericht - Registergericht: Dresden HRB 20337 (Commercial Registry) > > >>> Ust-IdNr.: DE813263791 (VAT ID Number) > > >>> Gesch??ftsf??hrer: John Duperon, Jeff Oegema (Managing Directors) > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Discuss mailing list > > >>> Discuss@lists.software-carpentry.org > > >>> > > >>> > > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> Dr. Michael (Mike) Jackson m.jack...@epcc.ed.ac.uk > > >> Software Architect Tel: +44 (0)131 650 5141 > > >> EPCC, The University of Edinburgh http://www.epcc.ed.ac.uk > > >> Software Sustainability Institute http://www.software.ac.uk > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > > >> Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Discuss mailing list > > >> Discuss@lists.software-carpentry.org > > >> > > >> > > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Discuss mailing list > > > Discuss@lists.software-carpentry.org > > > > > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > > > > > > > -- > > Peter Steinbach, Dr. rer. nat. > > HPC Developer, Scientific Computing Facility > > > > Scionics Computer Innovation GmbH > > L??scherstr. 16 > > 01309 Dresden > > Germany > > > > phone +49 351 210 2882 > > fax +49 351 202 707 04 > > www.scionics.de > > > > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Dresden (Main office) > > Amtsgericht - Registergericht: Dresden HRB 20337 (Commercial Registry) > > Ust-IdNr.: DE813263791 (VAT ID Number) > > Gesch??ftsf??hrer: John Duperon, Jeff Oegema (Managing Directors) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss@lists.software-carpentry.org > > > > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.software-carpentry.org > http://lists.software-carpentry.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss_lists.software-carpentry.org -- C. 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