I will summarize my points as I won't be able to make the board meeting or this Tuesday's meeting as I'll be blowing stuff up with C4 and det cord that day:
* There isnt now nor has ever been a pattern of substance abuse at Synhak. Late night hackers are not being solicited by people looking to buy drugs or alcohol. The community has regulated itself on this matter. If you're concerned about another person, go and talk to them about it. * If the concern is safety, how does this make us more safe and less liable? There are already liability waivers, and safety classes REQUIRED before you can use the machine shop. I'm sure the safety class covers usage while under the influence. * If things do get out of hand on a day, the Akron police downtown station is .4 miles away, WALKING DISTANCE! All this stuff is already against the law and so far, Synhak is known as a law abiding organization. * If we're concerned about illicit drugs and alcohol abuse to formulate policy, then lets go the extra mile, we need an acceptable use policy to get on the computers and internet while at the space since copyright infringement is also illegal and we need ensure Synhak isn't liable for a visitor who downloads a song on our computer and internet connection. * Lastly, if the membership decides that there should be a written policy, that policy must be written by a lawyer and then voted in, if the intent is to protect the organization then it should be done by a legal expert. For that matter, if legal protection is needed, we should keep a lawyer on a retainer for consultation. On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Tomm Smith <root.pac...@gmail.com> wrote: > Torrie, > No worries. As I am sure the feeling is mutually perceived. The topic is > sort of foundational to a collectivists community so the heat of emotion is > bound to arise. > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Tomm Smith <root.pac...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Torrie, >> I understand maintaining the spirit of what the space is and what the >> root desire of the gathering is. However, being a legal establishment, one >> must abide legal stipulations to ensure that possible neglected corners of >> circumstance do not bring a judicial situation that cripples the over all >> community. Legal professionalism and personal hackerdom can co-exist in >> parallel and have no breaks in linearity. The legal paper work and >> guidelines will only establish a certain order of conduct that has weight >> communally, and legal coverage excluding the establishment from any >> mindless fools wrecking the place. Granted said guidelines are not hoops >> and boundaries causing a communistic totalitarian sort of community. In >> short, legal hackerdom does not last very long. >> >> >> Omar, >> I think the primary focus of the introduction of the rules and >> regulations is to be strictly a paperwork thing to have sway in court, >> *GIVEN* a situation should arise. I could be wrong on this, it is simply my >> take of the primary reason for introducing such proposals. >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Torrie Fischer <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net >> > wrote: >> >>> > If its decided that we must have a drug and alcohol policy, >>> >>> Pushing through a board vote without membership discussion doesn't mean >>> "it is >>> decided", FWIW. >>> >>> On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:43:32 Omar Rassi wrote: >>> > Is Synhak on trial for an incident that we now need to defend ourselves >>> > with policy and paperwork? If its decided that we must have a drug and >>> > alcohol policy, then it should be written by a lawyer and not by us >>> (unless >>> > a member here has a law degree). >>> > >>> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Omar Rassi <omar.ra...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > > How has Synhak supported drug use? Alcohol is in the fridge and only >>> > > adults consume it. The alcohol is brought in by adults with their own >>> > > money, not one dime of funds from Synhak's coffers has gone to >>> alcohol. >>> > > Beer brewing is one our supported hacking activities, do we now need >>> to >>> > > have rules on that because people are getting out of control? >>> > > >>> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Justin Herman <just...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >> Omar, >>> > >> >>> > >> Yes the restaurant can be liable IF it can be proven that the >>> restaurant >>> > >> supported this activity. The issue becomes how good is our defense. >>> > >> >>> > >> Justin >>> > >> >>> > >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Omar Rassi <omar.ra...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> So if someone snorts coke in a restaurant bathroom, the restaurant >>> is >>> > >>> liable? Again, I should emphasize, I'm not against the idea, I'm >>> just >>> > >>> against creating more regulation when there already exists the >>> law. It >>> > >>> isn't any of our business what life choices people make. >>> > >>> >>> > >>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Justin Herman <just...@gmail.com >>> >wrote: >>> > >>>> Omar, >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> Without policy SynHak becomes compliant with legal issues in the >>> space. >>> > >>>> SynHak created the atmosphere for X to occur. Why? Because we >>> wanted to >>> > >>>> not >>> > >>>> have rules is not valid legal defense. ESP since it has now been >>> > >>>> brought up.>>>> >>> > >>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi >>> <omar.ra...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> > >>>>> Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I don't >>> come >>> > >>>>> there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law >>> doesn't >>> > >>>>> disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering why >>> the >>> > >>>>> organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the >>> subject. >>> > >>>>> >>> > >>>>> >>> > >>>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer < >>> > >>>>> >>> > >>>>> tdfisc...@hackerbots.net> wrote: >>> > >>>>>> On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: >>> > >>>>>> > I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not >>> enough >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> anymore. >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not exactly >>> against >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> this >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > idea but so far the majority of people that come to the space >>> and >>> > >>>>>> > participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this gotten >>> so out >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> of hand >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > that people are no longer able to look out for eachother or >>> > >>>>>> > restrain >>> > >>>>>> > themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become big >>> brother? >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> Yeah, thats my concern. >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive rules >>> and were >>> > >>>>>> capable >>> > >>>>>> of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person >>> conversations >>> > >>>>>> to >>> > >>>>>> address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote topics >>> that >>> > >>>>>> apply to >>> > >>>>>> the whole membership three days before board meetings. >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a board >>> meeting >>> > >>>>>> must be >>> > >>>>>> issued in full with any announcement. >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board >>> meeting? an >>> > >>>>>> hour into >>> > >>>>>> it? >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling the >>> > >>>>>> community. >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman < >>> just...@gmail.com> >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> wrote: >>> > >>>>>> > > I think we need to set the option for you to be excused for >>> the >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> day with >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > > the possibility of having membership terminated or banned >>> for >>> > >>>>>> > > repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to cooperate to >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> remove and >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > > mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police >>> should be >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> called. >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > > I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our safety >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> requirements as >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > > it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held liable >>> but >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> the >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > > members >>> > >>>>>> > > and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. >>> Safety is >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> of >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > > concern >>> > >>>>>> > > as someone could personally feel they are alright to operate >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> machinery but >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > > miss judge they capacity. >>> > >>>>>> > > >>> > >>>>>> > > These are awful concerns and no one likes to think about >>> someone >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> getting >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > > hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to stand >>> on. >>> > >>>>>> > > >>> > >>>>>> > > >>> > >>>>>> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim (PSA-Akron) < >>> > >>>>>> > > >>> > >>>>>> > > tim.see...@psangelus.com> wrote: >>> > >>>>>> > >> It might need to say something about what the adult alcohol >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> permitted >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> behavior is. >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> V/R >>> > >>>>>> > >> Tim Seeley >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> -----Original Message----- >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: >>> > >>>>>> discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> Behalf Of Devin Wolfe >>> > >>>>>> > >> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM >>> > >>>>>> > >> To: discuss@synhak.org >>> > >>>>>> > >> Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> Hello all, >>> > >>>>>> > >> Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at >>> synhak. But >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> with >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> several complaints and concerns raised recently I feel it >>> is >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> time we >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise ourselves if >>> we >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> just turn a >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while under >>> the >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> influence >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> is >>> > >>>>>> > >> a liability. >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the board: >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the use of >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> illegal drugs >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> or related illegal activities including but not limited to >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> illegal drug >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, providing >>> drugs >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> or >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> alcohol >>> > >>>>>> > >> to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a minor, >>> as >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> defined and >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of laws >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> pertaining to >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> any >>> > >>>>>> > >> location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting >>> business. >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> This >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> pertains but is not limited to agents, representatives, >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> volunteers, >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. Also do >>> we >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> need an >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> explicit procedure for discipline or removal if needed? >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this a >>> personal >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> matter. >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> > >> Keep names out of it. >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> In excellence, >>> > >>>>>> > >> Devin Wolfe >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> Sent with AquaMail for Android >>> > >>>>>> > >> http://www.aqua-mail.com >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss mailing list >>> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss@synhak.org >>> > >>>>>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss mailing list >>> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss@synhak.org >>> > >>>>>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> > >>>>>> > > >>> > >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>>>>> > > Discuss mailing list >>> > >>>>>> > > Discuss@synhak.org >>> > >>>>>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> > >>>>>> >>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list >>> > >>>>>> Discuss@synhak.org >>> > >>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> > >>>>> >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>>>> Discuss mailing list >>> > >>>>> Discuss@synhak.org >>> > >>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> > >>>> >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>>> Discuss mailing list >>> > >>>> Discuss@synhak.org >>> > >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> > >>> >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> Discuss mailing list >>> > >>> Discuss@synhak.org >>> > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> > >> >>> > >> _______________________________________________ >>> > >> Discuss mailing list >>> > >> Discuss@synhak.org >>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Discuss mailing list >>> Discuss@synhak.org >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Sincerely, Tomm Smith >> God bless >> > > > > -- > > Sincerely, Tomm Smith > God bless > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@synhak.org > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss >
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