On Sunday, March 09, 2014 19:16:33 Omar Rassi wrote: > I was thinking about a wording that would achieve the desired result, have > a broad definition so that it covers all hypothetical problems and doesn't > require any change in the future. It could read as follows: > > "Synhak Inc. expects all of its members, officers, and visitors to abide by > federal, state and local law as required on the Synhak Inc. premises." > > It covers the concerns in this thread and more, its an established > statement that Synhak Inc. doesn't condone unlawful activity and if the law > changes, we don't have to go back and adjust it.
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with stressing the fact that we're a corporation. We're not; SYNHAK is a collective of people doing neat things. It is a core value of the hacker to rebel against authority. Isn't registering our activity with the government in exact opposition to that? Consider that for a bit. > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Omar Rassi <omar.ra...@gmail.com> wrote: > > lol, did you really just do this now? > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:52 PM, Torrie Fischer <tdfisc...@hackerbots.net>wrote: > >> On Friday, March 07, 2014 13:44:47 Omar Rassi wrote: > >> > I will summarize my points as I won't be able to make the board meeting > >> > >> or > >> > >> > this Tuesday's meeting as I'll be blowing stuff up with C4 and det cord > >> > that day: > >> > > >> > * There isnt now nor has ever been a pattern of substance abuse at > >> > >> Synhak. > >> > >> > Late night hackers are not being solicited by people looking to buy > >> > >> drugs > >> > >> > or alcohol. The community has regulated itself on this matter. If > >> > you're > >> > concerned about another person, go and talk to them about it. > >> > > >> > * If the concern is safety, how does this make us more safe and less > >> > liable? There are already liability waivers, and safety classes > >> > REQUIRED > >> > before you can use the machine shop. I'm sure the safety class covers > >> > >> usage > >> > >> > while under the influence. > >> > > >> > * If things do get out of hand on a day, the Akron police downtown > >> > >> station > >> > >> > is .4 miles away, WALKING DISTANCE! All this stuff is already against > >> > >> the > >> > >> > law and so far, Synhak is known as a law abiding organization. > >> > > >> > * If we're concerned about illicit drugs and alcohol abuse to formulate > >> > policy, then lets go the extra mile, we need an acceptable use policy > >> > to > >> > get on the computers and internet while at the space since copyright > >> > infringement is also illegal and we need ensure Synhak isn't liable for > >> > >> a > >> > >> > visitor who downloads a song on our computer and internet connection. > >> > > >> > * Lastly, if the membership decides that there should be a written > >> > >> policy, > >> > >> > that policy must be written by a lawyer and then voted in, if the > >> > >> intent is > >> > >> > to protect the organization then it should be done by a legal expert. > >> > >> For > >> > >> > that matter, if legal protection is needed, we should keep a lawyer on > >> > a > >> > retainer for consultation. > >> > >> its happening > >> > >> http://i.imgur.com/oVyfzv2.png > >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Tomm Smith <root.pac...@gmail.com> > >> > >> wrote: > >> > > Torrie, > >> > > No worries. As I am sure the feeling is mutually perceived. The topic > >> > >> is > >> > >> > > sort of foundational to a collectivists community so the heat of > >> > >> emotion > >> > >> > > is > >> > > bound to arise. > >> > > > >> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Tomm Smith <root.pac...@gmail.com> > >> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Torrie, > >> > >> I understand maintaining the spirit of what the space is and what > >> > >> the > >> > >> root desire of the gathering is. However, being a legal > >> > >> establishment, > >> > >> > >> one > >> > >> must abide legal stipulations to ensure that possible neglected > >> > >> corners > >> > >> > >> of > >> > >> circumstance do not bring a judicial situation that cripples the > >> > >> over all > >> > >> > >> community. Legal professionalism and personal hackerdom can co-exist > >> > >> in > >> > >> > >> parallel and have no breaks in linearity. The legal paper work and > >> > >> guidelines will only establish a certain order of conduct that has > >> > >> weight > >> > >> > >> communally, and legal coverage excluding the establishment from any > >> > >> mindless fools wrecking the place. Granted said guidelines are not > >> > >> hoops > >> > >> > >> and boundaries causing a communistic totalitarian sort of community. > >> > >> In > >> > >> > >> short, legal hackerdom does not last very long. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Omar, > >> > >> I think the primary focus of the introduction of the rules and > >> > >> regulations is to be strictly a paperwork thing to have sway in > >> > >> court, > >> > >> > >> *GIVEN* a situation should arise. I could be wrong on this, it is > >> > >> simply > >> > >> > >> my > >> > >> take of the primary reason for introducing such proposals. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Torrie Fischer < > >> > >> tdfisc...@hackerbots.net > >> > >> > >> > wrote: > >> > >>> > If its decided that we must have a drug and alcohol policy, > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Pushing through a board vote without membership discussion doesn't > >> > >> mean > >> > >> > >>> "it is > >> > >>> decided", FWIW. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:43:32 Omar Rassi wrote: > >> > >>> > Is Synhak on trial for an incident that we now need to defend > >> > >>> > ourselves > >> > >>> > with policy and paperwork? If its decided that we must have a > >> > >> drug and > >> > >> > >>> > alcohol policy, then it should be written by a lawyer and not by > >> > >> us > >> > >> > >>> (unless > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > a member here has a law degree). > >> > >>> > > >> > >>> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Omar Rassi <omar.ra...@gmail.com > >> > >>> > >> > >>> wrote: > >> > >>> > > How has Synhak supported drug use? Alcohol is in the fridge and > >> > >> only > >> > >> > >>> > > adults consume it. The alcohol is brought in by adults with > >> > >> their > >> > >> > >>> > > own > >> > >>> > > money, not one dime of funds from Synhak's coffers has gone to > >> > >>> > >> > >>> alcohol. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > > Beer brewing is one our supported hacking activities, do we now > >> > >> need > >> > >> > >>> to > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > > have rules on that because people are getting out of control? > >> > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Justin Herman < > >> > >> just...@gmail.com> > >> > >> > >>> wrote: > >> > >>> > >> Omar, > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >>> > >> Yes the restaurant can be liable IF it can be proven that the > >> > >>> > >> > >>> restaurant > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> supported this activity. The issue becomes how good is our > >> > >> defense. > >> > >> > >>> > >> Justin > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >>> > >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Omar Rassi < > >> > >> omar.ra...@gmail.com> > >> > >> > >>> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> So if someone snorts coke in a restaurant bathroom, the > >> > >> restaurant > >> > >> > >>> is > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> liable? Again, I should emphasize, I'm not against the idea, > >> > >> I'm > >> > >> > >>> just > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> against creating more regulation when there already exists > >> > >>> > >>> the > >> > >>> > >> > >>> law. It > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> isn't any of our business what life choices people make. > >> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Justin Herman < > >> > >> just...@gmail.com > >> > >> > >>> >wrote: > >> > >>> > >>>> Omar, > >> > >>> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >>>> Without policy SynHak becomes compliant with legal issues in > >> > >> the > >> > >> > >>> space. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>> SynHak created the atmosphere for X to occur. Why? Because > >> > >>> > >>>> we > >> > >>> > >> > >>> wanted to > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>> not > >> > >>> > >>>> have rules is not valid legal defense. ESP since it has now > >> > >> been > >> > >> > >>> > >>>> brought up.>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Omar Rassi > >> > >>> > >> > >>> <omar.ra...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> > >>> > >>>>> Personally, I'm not interested in policing the space, I > >> > >> don't > >> > >> > >>> come > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>> there to keep on eye on other members and visitors. The law > >> > >>> > >> > >>> doesn't > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>> disappear when you walk through the doors so I'm wondering > >> > >> why > >> > >> > >>> the > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>> organizing needs to apply more paperwork and wording on the > >> > >>> > >> > >>> subject. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Torrie Fischer < > >> > >>> > >>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>> tdfisc...@hackerbots.net> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>>>>> On Friday, March 07, 2014 12:20:05 Omar Rassi wrote: > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > I'm taking this to mean that the liability waiver is not > >> > >>> > >> > >>> enough > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> anymore. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > Did something happen at the space recently? I'm not > >> > >> exactly > >> > >> > >>> against > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> this > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > idea but so far the majority of people that come to the > >> > >> space > >> > >> > >>> and > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > participate have been adults of sound mind. Has this > >> > >> gotten > >> > >> > >>> so out > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> of hand > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > that people are no longer able to look out for eachother > >> > >> or > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > restrain > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > themselves so Synhak Inc. needs to step in and become > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > big > >> > >>> > >> > >>> brother? > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> Yeah, thats my concern. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> I thought we were trying to stay away from pre-emptive > >> > >> rules > >> > >> > >>> and were > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> capable > >> > >>> > >>>>>> of policing ourselves like adults, or having in person > >> > >>> > >> > >>> conversations > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> to > >> > >>> > >>>>>> address issues instead of slyly bringing up board vote > >> > >> topics > >> > >> > >>> that > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> apply to > >> > >>> > >>>>>> the whole membership three days before board meetings. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> I think we need a bylaw amendment that the agenda for a > >> > >> board > >> > >> > >>> meeting > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> must be > >> > >>> > >>>>>> issued in full with any announcement. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> Am I allowed to bring issues up minutes before the board > >> > >>> > >> > >>> meeting? an > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> hour into > >> > >>> > >>>>>> it? > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> I think I'll do that. I'll propose that we stop coddling > >> > >> the > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> community. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:10 PM, Justin Herman < > >> > >>> > >> > >>> just...@gmail.com> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > I think we need to set the option for you to be > >> > >> excused for > >> > >> > >>> the > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> day with > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > the possibility of having membership terminated or > >> > >> banned > >> > >> > >>> for > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > repeat/egregious behavior. Someone unwilling to > >> > >> cooperate > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > to > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> remove and > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > mitigate the issue and safety is of concern the police > >> > >>> > >> > >>> should be > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> called. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > I see a drug and alcohol policy as important as our > >> > >> safety > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> requirements as > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > it put everyone at risk. Not only can SynHak be held > >> > >> liable > >> > >> > >>> but > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> the > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > members > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > and board who allow it to continue can be held liable. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Safety is > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> of > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > concern > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > as someone could personally feel they are alright to > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > operate > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> machinery but > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > miss judge they capacity. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > These are awful concerns and no one likes to think > >> > >> about > >> > >> > >>> someone > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> getting > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > hurt BUT without a policy SynHak can't have a leg to > >> > >> stand > >> > >> > >>> on. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 11:53 AM, Seeley, Tim > >> > >> (PSA-Akron) < > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > tim.see...@psangelus.com> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> It might need to say something about what the adult > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> alcohol > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> permitted > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> behavior is. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> V/R > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Tim Seeley > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> From: discuss-boun...@synhak.org [mailto: > >> > >>> > >>>>>> discuss-boun...@synhak.org] On > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Behalf Of Devin Wolfe > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 11:41 AM > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> To: discuss@synhak.org > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Subject: [SH-Discuss] SYNHAK Drug Policy > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Hello all, > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Up until now there has been no formal drug policy at > >> > >>> > >> > >>> synhak. But > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> with > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> several complaints and concerns raised recently I > >> > >> feel it > >> > >> > >>> is > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> time we > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> implement one. As a corporation we jeopardise > >> > >> ourselves if > >> > >> > >>> we > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> just turn a > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> blind eye. Plus working around dangerous tools while > >> > >> under > >> > >> > >>> the > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> influence > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> is > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> a liability. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Here is the wording I plan on submitting to the > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> board: > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> SYNHAK INC. will not condone, endorse, or allow the > >> > >> use of > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> illegal drugs > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> or related illegal activities including but not > >> > >> limited to > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> illegal drug > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> use, possession, sale, manufacturing, transfer, > >> > >> providing > >> > >> > >>> drugs > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> or > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> alcohol > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> to a minor, or consumption of drugs or alcohol by a > >> > >> minor, > >> > >> > >>> as > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> defined and > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> stated in the Ohio Revised Code, any laws or set of > >> > >> laws > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> pertaining to > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> any > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> location where SYNHAK INC. is at that time conducting > >> > >>> > >> > >>> business. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> This > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> pertains but is not limited to agents, > >> > >> representatives, > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> volunteers, > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> members, nonmembers, employees, and contractors. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> I would like the hear everyone's opinion on this. > >> > >> Also do > >> > >> > >>> we > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> need an > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> explicit procedure for discipline or removal if > >> > >> needed? > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Please do not accuse, slander, or otherwise make this > >> > >> a > >> > >> > >>> personal > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> matter. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Keep names out of it. > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> In excellence, > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Devin Wolfe > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Sent with AquaMail for Android > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> http://www.aqua-mail.com > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss mailing list > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss@synhak.org > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss mailing list > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> Discuss@synhak.org > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Discuss mailing list > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > Discuss@synhak.org > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >>> > >>>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >> > >>> > >>>>>> Discuss mailing list > >> > >>> > >>>>>> Discuss@synhak.org > >> > >>> > >>>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >>> > >>>>> > >> > >>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >> > >>> > >>>>> Discuss mailing list > >> > >>> > >>>>> Discuss@synhak.org > >> > >>> > >>>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >>> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> > >>> > >>>> Discuss mailing list > >> > >>> > >>>> Discuss@synhak.org > >> > >>> > >>>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >> > >>> > >>> Discuss mailing list > >> > >>> > >>> Discuss@synhak.org > >> > >>> > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >>> > >> Discuss mailing list > >> > >>> > >> Discuss@synhak.org > >> > >>> > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >>> > >> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >> > >>> Discuss mailing list > >> > >>> Discuss@synhak.org > >> > >>> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> Sincerely, Tomm Smith > >> > >> God bless > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > > >> > > Sincerely, Tomm Smith > >> > > God bless > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Discuss mailing list > >> > > Discuss@synhak.org > >> > > https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Discuss mailing list > >> Discuss@synhak.org > >> https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss@synhak.org https://synhak.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
