Warren, We all know support for an RDBMS matters a lot in enterprise corporate environments. I think having this support in the https://github.com/microsoft organization is probably better for MSSQL users.
Coordinating support between a support organization, open source components, and Django is challenging, and even for projects hosted within an organization like that. It isn't always clea that support contracts for MSSQL include support for the Django-mssql extension and all layers in between. At least clarifying under Features that support fis included in a support contract will catch the eyes of Django devs who are also enterprise decision makers and influencers. You could also align things so that support requests that mention django-mssql always let you know (open a linked gitub issue, or something). Clarifying that at DjangoCon will go so very far in making users in corporate environments happy. I'm also going to suggest building more coordinated support for publishing to Power BI from Django applications. Maybe you can include logic that understands how to publish to Dataverse based on Django models. This will go over a lot of heads, but not mine :). On Sat, Apr 2, 2022 at 11:44 AM Carlton Gibson <carlton.gib...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey Tim. > > FWIW I have directly asked people at Oracle if they would take up a > corporate sponsorship of the DSF in order to help support the ongoing > maintenance of the backend. > Again, it was almost like I hadn't said anything. Rather than a Yes or a > No, they did instead offer some cloud hosting, which we looked into but > which wasn't appropriate. > > The Oracle backend would be in big trouble if Mariusz wasn't personally a > fan. Oracle stepping up to support it would make it much more sustainable. > If anyone knows how to get to have a sensible conversation with someone > with the ability to make such a contribution to the DSF please do let us > know. > > MySQL is slightly different, in that there are a number of active > contributors for it. Support from Oracle Corp would still be welcome, but > it's not as pressing IMO. > > Personally, I think MSSQL support in core would be awesome, but we can't > just take that on because it would be a Nice to Have; we have to be > realistic about how it's going to be maintained. > > Kind Regards, > > Carlton > > On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 at 17:02, Tim Allen <flip...@peregrinesalon.com> wrote: > >> Full disclosure: I've helped maintain SQL Server Django engine packages >> in the past, and was involved in getting the project started for the >> official Microsoft Django engine package. >> >> First, thanks to Warren and the folks from Microsoft for creating this >> backend. There are a fair amount of users that need a Microsoft SQL Server >> backend, and for years we've been having to shuttle between >> barely-maintained engines, forks, and pip installs to commit hashes while >> waiting for merges. It is less than ideal. Several big supporters of Django >> (The Wharton School, RedHat Ansible, to name two) have been among those >> looking for a solid backend solution for years. Microsoft has provided us a >> vastly improved option to what we'd been saddled with for the past decade. >> >> The DB popularity index at db-engines.com has regularly listed the top >> four as Oracle, MySQL, Microsoft SQL Server, and PostgreSQL, in that order. >> I notice some comments in this thread about Microsoft being for-profit... >> well, what about Oracle? I don't see Oracle on the Support Django page >> either, yet two of their databases have support in core. MSSQL is the only >> one of the big-four RDBMS's without support in core Django. That seems to >> be a pretty big hole in Django's offering. >> >> That said, I completely agree that the backend still needs work, and a >> solid commitment from Microsoft before being brought into core Django. I >> want to make sure Microsoft knows that many in our community appreciate >> their efforts in taking the lead on this backend: support for SQL Server in >> the Django ecosystem is far better than it ever has been in my eight years >> of being a Djangonaut. They have put a lot of time and effort into this >> project, and I think they're well on their way to where they need to be for >> the long-term goal of being in core Django. >> >> A lot of the questions being asked of Microsoft in this thread just don't >> seem fair to me - we're not asking the same of Oracle, Redis Enterprise >> Software, or any of the other commercial products that Django has built-in >> support for. Why Microsoft and not the others? >> >> Warm regards, >> >> Tim >> >> On Friday, April 1, 2022 at 8:39:17 AM UTC-4 Salman Mohammadi wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> IMO, Django is there to create value for *its* users. >>> >>> I'm not aware how MS Team reached this conclusion that merging their >>> incomplete package into Django core creates more value for Django users >>> than when it is a third-party package. Would you please tell me how? >>> >>> I have access to only two resources to calculate the popularity of >>> mssql-django package, one of them is the last Django Survey, >>> >>> >>> https://www.djangoproject.com/weblog/2022/jan/03/django-developers-survey-2021-results/ >>> >>> and the other one is Github Stars. None of them show any sign that MS >>> package is even semi-popular among Django users. >>> >>> We have many popular packages that are residing outside of Django core >>> and living happily their lives. >>> >>> Probably MS wants to use this merge as a marketing point for their >>> MSSQL, a proprietary software. >>> >>> At the end I, as a total outsider with no direct connection of any kind >>> with Django project, have nothing against merging MS package into core the >>> same way that we have Oracle backend. But before that, there are some >>> questions that need to addressed: >>> >>> 1. How can MS package create more value for Django users by getting >>> merged into main branch? >>> >>> 2. According to your internal spying tools, how popular is your package? >>> >>> 3. How can you guarantee the long-term sustainability of your package? >>> >>> 4. What are the previous involvements of MS Package contributors in >>> Django? >>> >>> 5. How does MS support Django Project for its long-term fundraising >>> goals? >>> >>> 6. Is MS Team ready to follow Django Project deadlines? Especially >>> release dates and critical bugs. >>> >>> 7. How does MS support Django Fellows in helping them triaging the >>> tickets, related to MS package. >>> >>> Cheers, Salman >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Am 31. März 2022 18:30:06 MESZ schrieb Warren Chu <vwa...@gmail.com>: >>>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> There is increasing interest within Microsoft to have stronger ties >>>> between Microsoft SQL Server and Django. As you may be aware, Microsoft and >>>> their connectivity teams have been managing the 3rd party backend for >>>> "mssql-django" for over a year now at: >>>> https://github.com/microsoft/mssql-django >>>> >>>> Inclusion of SQL Server as a 1st party backend is viewed as a potential >>>> big milestone in that regard. >>>> >>>> @adamjohnson mentioned a year ago that ideally the community would like >>>> to see multiple years of ongoing Microsoft support before considering >>>> merging as a 1st party backend. >>>> >>>> We'd love to hear thoughts and feedback around the possibility of >>>> moving forward with a DEP enhancement proposal, with a commitment from >>>> Microsoft to providing continued dedicated support for the 1st party >>>> backend through the Django project itself (rather than the 3rd party repo). >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Team Microsoft >>>> >>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/6baed3f9-6cf5-459a-9937-f0c38d64f332n%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/6baed3f9-6cf5-459a-9937-f0c38d64f332n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAJwKpyQDqeiD8iLkk5Np_b8q2Vz2POqj710e3kLczahSFwLgeg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAJwKpyQDqeiD8iLkk5Np_b8q2Vz2POqj710e3kLczahSFwLgeg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. 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