Date sent: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:46:32 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: STUDIES IN WOMEN AND ENVIRONMENT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
> In a message dated 98-10-18 13:24:51 EDT, you write:
>
> << If global starvation and a toxic ecosystem is our only alternative to a
> mushrooming populace, you'd better start believing it's an option -
> perhaps our ONLY option! Joe
>
> >>
> Joe - you have not answered these questions:
>
> How would mandatory population be implemented?
> How would it be re-enforced?
>
> If it were an option there would be definite answers to these questions. Do
> you agree?
>
> Thanks!
> Angela
Hows about mandatory sterilization after one has mothered and
fathered a set number of children? I wouldn't fight it! Joe
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Oct 18 21:29:02 1998
From: "Joe E. Dees" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:29:05 -0500
Subject: Re: Religion, environment, & growth
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-reply-to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
And the Lord Saith, "Be Fruitcakes and Multiply Beyond All Reason."
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Oct 18 21:29:03 1998
From: "Joe E. Dees" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:29:05 -0500
Subject: Re: family size,etc.
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In-reply-to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The "rights of the unborn" is the clarion call of the radical anti-
abortionists, who collectively have bombed and burned many clinics
(some more than once), have prayed for me to die when I was
functioning as a N.O.W. escort at the Ladies' Center, and shot three
people to death in my own hometown! Please, PLEASE assure me
that you're not one of THOSE, Angela!
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 19 05:04:11 1998
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:03:34 EDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Religion, environment, & growth
In a message dated 98-10-18 18:14:47 EDT, Marguerite write:
<< The problem with religion these days is that some people (in my view)
take the bible too literally and extrapolate meanings that "Gods work" is
to cover everything in life (except what they subjectively leave out).
I agree! We need more contemplation of Gods creation. Not just literal
interpretation of doctrine.
"If some people are trying to find a religious meaning in everything then
perhaps they had better look for the religious meaning in contraception,
vaccines and antibiotics."
I agree however regarding vaccines and antibiotics - Remember Marguerite -
these things came into being after numerous TESTS on animals! vaccines and
antibiotics are great - do not get me wrong - but they did not come into
existence without some error to animals.
"In my view, if you believe in a God and that God has given humans an Eden
and brains with which to reason then God has also expected us to exercise
common sense and to use our reasoning and ability to limit our population
sizes through contraception."
I Agree!
"You can also thank God for inspiring us to find
antibiotics and vaccines that have allowed for a longer life and where are
these mentioned in the bible as being acceptable - yet most Christians
embrace antibiotics and vaccines as being acceptable to promote and extend
life yet many *religions* encourage population growth "be fruitful and
multiply". Why is this so? To increase the power base of the religion?"
NO, I do not believe that is the only reason for pro-creation, but I can only
speak for myself on that - I believe that pro-creation is ingrain in our
beings! However, given the fact that we can be rational beings - we have to
pro-create rationally and wisely.
"The bible, it must be remembered, is a historical document. It was written
mostly by men and it was written long ago."
Most Christians believe that these men were divinely inspired. They were not
JUST men writing down their beliefes, they had some divine influence - and I
DO believe in DIVINE influence - God Incarnate - that is why I am a Christian!
"There is wisdom in the bible but
there is also outdated language and a million interpretations of what the
bible means. The bible is dated. At the time the bible was written, we did
not live in an industrialised over-populated polluted world where medicine
had become so advanced as to prolong life in many instances to allow people
to live to 100 years old(in developed countries). If we choose to chase
goals of promoting longevity while we allow burgeoning population growth,
there is conflict for
our resources are finite. We will have to reach a consensus on family size
limits whether through legislation or consensus (and consensus is highly
doubtful as a solution because there are too many religious dogmas and
cultural dogmas promoting population growth - eg some families in some
cultures will keep
procreating till they have a son)."
It will always be that way! However, for instance - me, I have 3 boys - for
some strange reason beyond even my own comprehension - I want to have a
daughter - however, as I mentioned in previous e-mail - I have equated the
Eco-crisis into my decision to not try to have another child at this time. I
can relate to people who want more children and I can also relate to the
problem that having more children presents to the Eco-crisis - there is not
easy answer but BLAMING cultural and religious dogmas is not the answer either
- Let people decide for themselves - if the Earth is to be saved - it is
because the majority of people who had the ability to save it - did their part
- just hope that others will take up arms and join us!
Peace!
Angela
Marguerite >>
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Oct 19 05:05:42 1998
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:05:33 -0400
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: will bason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: right to life poem
right to life
then left to die
we've really got to wonder why
he treats the unborn life so dear
then squanders lives already here
Life begins long before conception
when intelligence begins
is a different question
will bason
