I agree, its like everything else. It has a place, some things work well that way, and other do not.
For example, histology can be taught online very effectively because modern histology almost 90% is looking at images on a screen, not a scope. I think video lectures are a very powerful way to deliver online ed, but substituting discussion boards are largely over-rated, and in many cases simply busy work that give the impression of learning. I was exposed to one online course in which the total semester content was less than I would expect in a week of lecture (this was a for profit degree). I can see environmental policy being taught online effectively, but how you teach someone to do say wildlife techniques, fisheries techniques, or other field intensive subjects is beyond me. The histotech folks have a histotechnology program that is 100% online, you take the courses online, then do a 1 year paid intern to learn the lab techniques. The problem I see has always been laboratory components that are intended to teach skills rather than demonstrate things. Years ago the U of IL had extension coursework taught via correspondence and video cassette through their agriculture extension service. The bulk of the material was simply reading a series of books and watching the videos. Then, you had to go take tests at a local high school, extension office or such. The lab was handled by driving once a week to the U of I in Champaign-Urbana. I think this blended approach used for online education could be very effective. I know it is used at some schools rather than the either-or approach. For example, you could teach the general ecology via video lecture on the net, then once a week the students show up for lab at the university. Most people can handle driving 150 mi to take a lab once a week despite as bad as it sounds. Then again, does every biology course really need a lab? How many do we teach with a lab that actually only have one because some administrator required us to have one? I'm convinced that the laboratory's are not needed as much as they are used. In some classes we offer something called a lab and then have nothing more than discussions in it. Such an adjunct should not be a lab, it should be called a discusssion section to provide distinction between a section where we are doing activities to learn techniques or see things happen first hand, or even to investigate the structure first hand via dissection for example. I'm kind of wandering here, but the article I forwarded got me thinking about a lot of different angles, but to get back to the point, I think there is a stigma to online delivery because it is perceived as inferior due to the poorly structured and poor quality of some for profit programs combined with the stigma of correspondence courses from decades earlier. Agree, disagree, You can cast your stones now. :) M On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 3:37 AM, Kajal Sengupta <kajal.sengupt...@gmail.com> wrote: > To me , online education may have many drawbacks it provides education to > the deprived students either due to location or cost. > Kajal > > > On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:29:41 AM UTC+5:30, malcolm McCallum wrote: >> >> perception is everything. >> If you notice, their was little difference among Giant universities, >> regional, and even for profits. Where the issue came was specifically >> with online. >> >> I have taught online via video and via message boards for three >> different institutions. >> In some cases the programs were so lax a monkey with a potatoe gun >> could earn a degree, in others the programs were reasonably effective, >> made so by adding things you can't do in a classroom to make up for >> things that are frankly not possible online. >> >> I have taken a few online courses of late for GIS and for using R. >> These were technical courses through the US govt. >> >> Many online programs are nothing more than the old correspondence >> courses slopped online and claimed to be effective. I'ld teach online >> again, but only if I had control of the subject matter. Often times, >> this is not the case. >> >> The matter that surprised me is the dicotomy between for profits (most >> of which are online) and online. Notice they did not give the choice >> of in classroom settings in the figure. >> >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Joanna Wozniak >> <wozniak...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Dear Malcom, >> > >> > If you are attempting to start a discussion, this figure is quite >> > useful. >> > But, if using it as an ultimate determination on employer perceptions of >> > online education, the figure is questionable at best. >> > >> > There are a number of online programs that offer the caliber expected >> > for an >> > 'in person' program. In fact, I received my graduate degree in >> > Environmental >> > Planning & Management from Johns Hopkins. Not only were the professors >> > excellent, the coursework prepared me directly for functions in the >> > workplace. The entire degree was online. I also formed a wide network of >> > colleagues and mentors that help me to this day. In my experience, >> > employers have been very receptive to my degree. In addition, several of >> > them told me they were considering online coursework for themselves. >> > >> > A number of fields of study are not wholly appropriate for an online >> > experience. Field study and laboratory work do require work away from >> > the >> > desk and a guiding influence 'on hand'. However, that does not mean that >> > online programs with residency or cross-university cooperations cannot >> > account for those learning experiences. I have heard of online degree >> > programs forming partnerships to oversee fieldwork in the student's >> > region. >> > In my current PhD program, we have online learning then fieldwork during >> > the >> > residency portions. >> > >> > Depending on your goals, it's important to find the right online >> > program. It >> > takes a lot of time to 'get through the weeds' in the online searches or >> > by >> > word of mouth. >> > >> > I hope that students considering an online option are not turned off by >> > the >> > surveys. Take the time to find the right program, fitting your needs and >> > the >> > school's reputation in your field. >> > >> > Thank you for providing this opportunity to discuss online education. >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 11:32 AM, malcolm McCallum >> > <malcolm....@herpconbio.org> wrote: >> >> >> >> http://chronicle.com/img/photos/biz/26employers_overview03.png >> >> >> >> Key figure: Employers prefer all kinds of colleges EXCEPT online!!!! >> >> (its not all that close either, for profit is ranked way better than >> >> online programs!) >> >> M >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Malcolm L. McCallum >> >> Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry >> >> School of Biological Sciences >> >> University of Missouri at Kansas City >> >> >> >> Managing Editor, >> >> Herpetological Conservation and Biology >> >> >> >> "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - >> >> Allan Nation >> >> >> >> 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert >> >> 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, >> >> and pollution. >> >> 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction >> >> MAY help restore populations. >> >> 2022: Soylent Green is People! >> >> >> >> The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) >> >> Wealth w/o work >> >> Pleasure w/o conscience >> >> Knowledge w/o character >> >> Commerce w/o morality >> >> Science w/o humanity >> >> Worship w/o sacrifice >> >> Politics w/o principle >> >> >> >> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any >> >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >> >> contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized >> >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >> >> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and >> >> destroy all copies of the original message. >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Malcolm L. McCallum >> Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry >> School of Biological Sciences >> University of Missouri at Kansas City >> >> Managing Editor, >> Herpetological Conservation and Biology >> >> "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - >> Allan Nation >> >> 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert >> 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, >> and pollution. >> 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction >> MAY help restore populations. >> 2022: Soylent Green is People! >> >> The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) >> Wealth w/o work >> Pleasure w/o conscience >> Knowledge w/o character >> Commerce w/o morality >> Science w/o humanity >> Worship w/o sacrifice >> Politics w/o principle >> >> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any >> attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may >> contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized >> review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not >> the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and >> destroy all copies of the original message. -- Malcolm L. McCallum Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry School of Biological Sciences University of Missouri at Kansas City Managing Editor, Herpetological Conservation and Biology "Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - Allan Nation 1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert 1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss, and pollution. 2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction MAY help restore populations. 2022: Soylent Green is People! The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi) Wealth w/o work Pleasure w/o conscience Knowledge w/o character Commerce w/o morality Science w/o humanity Worship w/o sacrifice Politics w/o principle Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
