Jon Stevens wrote:
> on 10/4/2000 3:03 PM, "Robert Burrell Donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > I have had some good results from playing around with ECS and servlets in this
> > context. You see, the main alternative is not really stuff like turbine etc.
> > but
> > scripting-hybrids (PHP or any of that microsoft rubbish). They fall down from
> > the
> > fact that they cannot really take advantage of code-reuse and object-oriented
> > code (barring *crippling* installation problems in the case of microsoft IIS).
> > It
> > would be quite easy to make a good 'data-bound' style library which would
> > fetch
> > ECS objects from a database. For example, rather than using client-side
> > connectivity (ala microsoft) to connect to a server when you click an option
> > button on a form, it is very easy to come up with a library that returns an
> > ECS
> > object from a fetch on the server-side this is then served up when the request
> > is
> > reached at the server.
>
> So, either using an OO database or storing the serialized ECS byte[]'s in
> the database? What purpose would that serve?
I did some stuff (messing around) a bit ago which was sort of rang a bell with the
emails from Mike from the navy.
It's very, very easy to knock up library routines using which work against SQL
RDBMSs and return ECS elements.
Example - the class input form. I was really surprised how quickly you could
produce the infamous data-bound multi-choice combo button by writing library
functions returning ECS classes.
You see, I'd rather use servlets than use the client-side scripting alternatives
from microsoft (or whoever) - and those are (unfortunately) the enemy, not turbine
etc. I know all the advantages of OO databases - but most boss's will only look at
a technology like servlets if you can say - it runs against Oracle.
I've looked at Oracle's java generation technology - not bad. But (in my opinion -
and have done 2 years of code generation) they don't make the use they should do of
good library code and inheritance. They're a bit like a child with a new toy and
want to generate everything (even when more classic oop techniques would produce
better code).
>
>
> > What I've always wondered about is actually the best way to integrate this
> > into a
> > development framework...
>
> Spend some time with Turbine...we have a very good integration at the core
> with ECS...
don't get me wrong - I've aware (though probably not as aware as I should have been
before this thread!) of turbine.
Unfortunately most coder's don't get the chance to play with stuff like that on
work time.
I sometimes think that gurus telling newbies to go away and learn what is quite a
sophisticated framework can be counterproductive. (this is the JServ vs Tomcat
arguement)
Yes, point them in the direction towards enlightment, but if using ECSs in servlets
maybe in the way that I outlined above (or - any other way for that matter) helps
them get their job done and gets the technology out there then that's something to
be supporting.
It's easier to get commercial acceptance of something that can be shown to work
quickly than telling your boss that you've got a framework that'll take four weeks
to learn but will solve all their problems. (Let's face it - microsoft and oracle
are much better at this type of hype than any open source organisation).
Coders will learn the wisdom of your words in there own time. Hell, they might even
surprise you with some new innovation (us all! myself never so humble).
(... I love dialectic reasoning...finding the truth by arguing extremes...so please
don't get personally offended ;-)
cheers+beers
robert
>
>
> For example, in my WebMacro template Layout.wm file, I have this:
>
> $page.setBgColor("#ffffff")
>
> on the backend it uses ECS to set the bgcolor of the ECS Body element.
>
> -jon
>
> --
> http://scarab.tigris.org/ | http://noodle.tigris.org/
> http://java.apache.org/ | http://java.apache.org/turbine/
> http://www.working-dogs.com/ | http://jakarta.apache.org/velocity/
> http://www.collab.net/ | http://www.sourcexchange.com/
>
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