on 10/8/2000 3:16 PM, "Robert Burrell Donkin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I did some stuff (messing around) a bit ago which was sort of rang a bell
> with the emails from Mike from the navy. It's very, very easy to knock up
> library routines using which work against SQL RDBMSs and return ECS
> elements. Example - the class input form. I was really surprised how quickly
> you could produce the infamous data-bound multi-choice combo button by
> writing library functions returning ECS classes.
True...I'm not suggesting that you do otherwise...in fact, that is a
*perfect* example of how to use ECS.
> You see, I'd rather use
> servlets than use the client-side scripting alternatives from microsoft (or
> whoever) - and those are (unfortunately) the enemy, not turbine etc.
client side? huh? where does that come into play here?
> I know
> all the advantages of OO databases - but most boss's will only look at a
> technology like servlets if you can say - it runs against Oracle.
Right. Hence the reason for my original question. I was trying to get more
detail into what people meant.
> I've
> looked at Oracle's java generation technology - not bad. But (in my opinion
> - and have done 2 years of code generation) they don't make the use they
> should do of good library code and inheritance. They're a bit like a child
> with a new toy and want to generate everything (even when more classic oop
> techniques would produce better code).
? We weren't talking about using code generators.
> don't get me wrong - I've aware (though probably not as aware as I should have
> been before this thread!) of turbine. Unfortunately most coder's don't get the
> chance to play with stuff like that on work time.
Huh? But you get a chance to play with ECS?
> I sometimes think that gurus
> telling newbies to go away and learn what is quite a sophisticated framework
> can be counterproductive.
Lets see, the decision is that you learn a commercial closed source
sophisticated framework or you learn a free open source sophisticated
framework. Sorry, but the choice is pretty obvious to me.
> (this is the JServ vs Tomcat arguement)
Huh? What JServ vs. Tomcat argument? There is no argument there.
> Yes, point
> them in the direction towards enlightment, but if using ECSs in servlets maybe
> in the way that I outlined above (or - any other way for that matter) helps
> them get their job done and gets the technology out there then that's
> something to be supporting.
I never was not supporting your example use of it. I support it quite a bit.
> It's easier to get commercial acceptance of
> something that can be shown to work quickly than telling your boss that you've
> got a framework that'll take four weeks to learn but will solve all their
> problems. (Let's face it - microsoft and oracle are much better at this type
> of hype than any open source organisation). Coders will learn the wisdom of
> your words in there own time. Hell, they might even surprise you with some new
> innovation (us all! myself never so humble).
At this point, I don't think that Turbine (with the TDK) takes any longer to
learn than any other commercial closed source framework.
> (... I love dialectic reasoning...finding the truth by arguing extremes...so
> please don't get personally offended ;-)
I never do, but people like to interpret my replies as if I do.
-jon
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