Hi Ian,
Ian Lynch wrote:
I have changed the thread title. I have also copied to
[email protected] since there are a lot of people that this
could affect they should have an opportunity to debate this. For this
reason I think that starting an incubator should be delayed until the
topic has had time for proper discussion. I'm not saying that I am in
favour of any particular outcome at this point, I just think the people
involved in the current education project deserve more than a day's
notice of a potentially significant change.
This is not a change. I'm following the list too since its beginning.
The proposal I'll made will be to collect material that already exist
and will exist, collect inititiatives done by education ministry or else
(see Mandriva educational cds for example), etc...
This is not done on this list from what I've seen. I didn't search on IZ
for material though.
On Thu, 2006-02-09 at 23:54 +0100, Sophie Gautier wrote:
Hi Ian,
Well, no gold or bronze for me, the topic is not here, but in what we
are going to share ie: pedagogy and material.
My point is that you say that this is not part of the education project
in marketing, I'm saying it always was. Its simply that with nowhere
else for an education project it happened to be put under marketing. I
believe we discussed that some months ago by private E-mail.
Yes, that's true and I told you that I don't want to see this happen
here too, that's why I'm proposing an incubator project.
Usage of OOo in France, Switzerland or Canadian schools are not the
topic as the product is largely used (I can share numbers if needed but
I'm not very proud here as this is only usage).
That is the strategy in providing a government recognised certification
for participation. That is the essence of the concept of "Learning
through Participation". My background is about pedagogy in education.
This is also done in France currently for some examination level, I'm
waiting for the result of the OOo evaluation done last year.
My only purpose is contributions from high school laboratory (that are
already here), e-learning or any documentation, tools produced by
schools and ministry of education about OOo.
So why not let us all know about them and see about any translations
that can be done to English. With the Wiki, it should be a lot easier to
get these resources supported more widely.
IZ is also very good for this or the Doc&Files part of the list where
you can see who is working on what and reserve the files. We use it for
documentation and the workflow is pretty easy even for non english
speaking or non tech speaking.
And there is already a lot
: see Dmaths, Dscience, HistOOo, the EN/Apple initiative,
Thales/Polytechnique, etc... for known examples, that can be so useful
as a project and as a product.
The thing is that if we didn't know about them we couldn't do too much
about them. I don't recall any proposals to get these translated or to
get them onto the schools pages or set up new repositories for them. If
I missed that I apologise but unless people bring things to my attention
I don't necessarily know they exist. In fact getting translations to
English if these don't exist might well be something specialist language
schools in English might be interested in and I have good connections in
these.
I've indicated them several times and some are already in English or in
several languages :
http://www.dmaths.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=9
The education project should point to this kind of work, it could help a
lot of people through our community. This is the topic of my proposal,
that's all.
I'll propose on saturday an education incubator project where accent
will be placed on sharing : tools, knowledge, participation... Part of
my work in France and Africa has been successful, and I really want to
bring it to the overall project.
Placing in at the same level as the [EMAIL PROTECTED] would really confused
people and make them go away, just because the purpose is not the same.
Understand me right, this is not to underestimate the [EMAIL PROTECTED]
project, the topics of these projects are simply different, and they are
both necessary.
I think this needs a bit of thought. You might be right but if I was
taking a zero based view my first thought would be that there should be
a single education project.
That's your point of view.
I would have thought my point of view might be taken into account given
that I'm the Education Lead - even if it is not an "official" project
lead position.
A proposal for an incubator project is submitted to a vote and a
discussion. The proposal is meant to be the basis of the discussion.
And I don't care of being lead or not of this project, really this is
not the topic. The only thing I want is share my knowledge and the tool
I know that can help the community.
From what I know a several pedagogic research
dpts are happy to participate to this enterprise and not in a marketing
based project.
So should this not be brought up on the education list and discussed
before rushing off to start a new project?
This is not a rushing off. It's a long time thought and I was on the way
to submit it anyway this week.
The obvious solution is to move education from marketing to its own
heading - the new acceptance of using Wikis makes this a lot easier - it
was only under marketing by chance in the first place. If there had been
an education project for OOo when I joined the community I would have
been in that not marketing since my professional background is more
education pedagogy.
So why don't you put it in place, did you ask for help about that ? In
any case, there is no fight about that project. As already said the only
thing I want is to see a real education project in place for OOo and not
something hide behind marketing because it really prevents some people
to join and there is no way to put references in place.
A project of this kind should have it's own web space, imho only a page
on a wiki is not enough.
So, as I said, my proposal for this incubator will come on Saturday, I
hope that all the pedagogy experts will join it and that we will achieve
a world share :)
Where will the proposal take place?
As I already said, as an incubator project.
I meant were you intending to discuss it on a particular list?
Incubator projects are submitted on discuss@ list
http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html.
Kind regards
Sophie
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