Hi Ian,
Ian Lynch wrote:
[...]
Lists don't in general collect material, they discuss its collection.
Well reading the list archives since 2003 don't give me this impression.
If
you have sources of information, let's discuss them and how we might
make them available. We don't need to fork the project to do that.
This is not a fork, as you will see it's another project that is not
grown for marketing OOo.
I
have absolutely no problem with anyone with access rights to the main
web site putting in any education links or create any pages they think
should be there. After all I advocate Wikis so why would I be concerned
about anyone adding to the education pages?
I think that shouldn't be there. Education pages are pages.
[...]
I'm proposing we consider making the education project as it exists now
into a new project, incubator if necessary but that we don't have two
projects that have essentially the same aims even if each have some
different content.
But currently there is no education project. If I go to the project list
in incubator, I can't see any subproject of marketing like they are
listing on distribution for example.
[...]
Its also done in many other countries by many other systems. I have been
travelling around the world a lot in the last two years to get more
information about this. Currently there is no international standard and
AFAIK none that gives recognition specifically to participation in Open
Source projects. There is nothing wrong with complementary national
schemes, I have discussed this with for example, the government of
Catalonia and we are in principle agreed to work for compatibility
between their national scheme and the International one I proposed. The
examination systems even within one country can be complex and there is
no reason to exclude any of them. My point is that this aspect is
central to the existing education project, we don't need to invent a new
project to cover it. If people want to catalogue national examination
options that are OOo compatible that would be a good sub-project.
Currently if someone else wants to do it they need 3 things. The
professional knowledge, time and ability to edit the main web site. A
wiki at least removes one of those barriers.
This is marketing OOo and this is absolutely not the topic of the
proposal I'll make.
[...]
Ok so file some issues on this and cc them to this list, me or whatever.
Again I can't see why the method of communication is relevant to the
central issue of why we need 2 projects.
An issue won't be enough, this is why I request a project to handle all
the tasks. And again, reading the archives of the list, I would be off
topic.
[...]
No problem, and if we get wiki pages going we can easily make such
links. As Alexandro said, I had a problem with maintaining the main
site. If you want to put these links on the education pages of the main
site please do, you have the access rights so just do it. If you think
I'm not doing something I should be tell me and I'll try and put it
right.
I don't have the access rights to marketing, I'm not a marketing developer.
[...]
But as a matter of courtesy I think an existing project lead should be
informed before such a proposal. What if out of the blue I proposed a
new XXXX project that already existed? How would that project lead feel?
Sorry, but I can't see any existing education project by now. I know
that you're working hard on OOo distribution and adoption for schools
and governments. But as already written several time, this is not the
topic of the project, this is the same difference that exist between
marketing and development.
I can rename the proposal for incubator if necessary, but what I propose
has nothing to do with what is currently done in this list.
[...]
So let's do it through the existing project and if necessary move it to
its own pages outside the marketing umbrella. The issue is not who leads
it but whether its good to have two projects. Best to have one I think
and we have one that can simply move location. If anyone wants to take
over as lead please feel free. I have plenty of other things to do.
The existing pages for education are identify as marketing part. This is
why it is necessary to have a real education project that deal with
development and not marketing, this is two really different tasks that
can't work together, but side by side.
[...]
It might have been in your head for a long time but its certainly news
to most people on this list!
And I told you so when you write me in private about the education
project you wanted.
[...]
I explained why I didn't do that and why I was giving this some new
consideration given the situation with the Wiki. Since that situation is
about a week old it just needed some thought and this is a really
pressurised time for me with work :-(. If you had E-mailed me about what
you were thinking perhaps this thread would have been unnecessary.
The wiki is there for several month now, not a week. We are all under
pressure with work, OOo, family and so on. And I don't need to e-mail
privatly people when I'm in a project, I really avoid that and don't
like it.
My proposal will be public and any body is invited to talk about it and
participate.
any case, there is no fight about that project. As already said the only
thing I want is to see a real education project in place for OOo
and not
something hide behind marketing because it really prevents some people
to join and there is no way to put references in place.
I would agree entirely with that. In fact you are in a better position
to put references into the main web site than I am. Please do it where
you think it will help. I trust your judgement to do it well.
The main web site, as you call it, is Marketing. What we have to
enlight, or discuss or point, again, has nothing to do with what is
currently on the page.
A project of this kind should have it's own web space, imho only a page
on a wiki is not enough.
No argument, I'm not saying we just need the wiki but I would like
participation to be as accessible as possible. The Wiki approach to
collaborative work has proved time and time again to be more productive.
This is why to me the acceptance of Wikis by the project as a whole
makes a big difference in the decision making about moving the education
project out of marketing. I would expect the bulk of the information
communication work to be done on the Wiki with CVS pages on the main web
site. Its not an either or, its a both.
May be I would like to see spip used too, but it's not depending on me,
but on the contributors will.
[...]
Incubator projects are submitted on discuss@ list
http://www.openoffice.org/about_us/protocols_proposing.html.
But not all people on this list will be subscribed to discuss and this
issue is likely to be most relevant to people on this list who have
demonstrated their interest in education. That's why it appears to me to
be a bit of a rush. Best to consult those who have shown an interest ad
done work on education first.
Yes, may be, but the process is clear and I will respect it.
Kind regards
Sophie
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