touche' (That's "too-shay" for those not into French, fencing or watching Gilligan's Island reruns)
I see your point. I see that you are from a cellular company. What would an entire nation of cellular phones be like? Noisy? Yes, but still functional (sort of like my house). Even though all of the cell phones and their towers have emissions higher than the radiated emissions limits for other products; they transmit in particular bands and use coding and other techniques. Perhaps this is what is wrong with this power line transmission scheme? If they are meant to be commercial products, these devices should be using some sort of standardized/allocated frequency band along with a recognized signaling method. If they were, they wouldn't be up a creek without a paddle; and we wouldn't have this thread. Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | > -----Original Message----- > From: Sundstrom Michael (NMP-RD/Dallas) > [SMTP:michael.sundst...@nokia.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:39 AM > To: Chris Maxwell; am...@westin-emission.no; > emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: RE: Company close down due to EMC phenomena > > Guys, > I don't think we want to forget that just one of these units will be > in > use. What would a whole country full of these units do to a mains > network? I'd guess it to be very noisy indeed! > > Michael Sundstrom > NOKIA > TCC Dallas / EMC > ofc: (972) 374-1462 > cell: (817) 917-5021 > amateur call: KB5UKT > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 6:19 AM > To: am...@westin-emission.no; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > Subject: RE: Company close down due to EMC phenomena > > > > It sounds as though... > > The instantaneous emissions aren't as high as an EFT burst or other > type > of transient phenomenon. So, this product causing a hard upset of > electronics is probably not a problem. > > When the conducted emissions limits were set, they were mostly dealing > with whether the product would interfere with radio or TV. As a > matter > of fact, the quasi-peak and average detectors are used in order to > simulate the response of the human ear. > > I'm curious. If you set this product right next to a radio. Would a > human being even be able to perceive the 25millisecond burst? > > Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division > email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 > 8024 > > NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA > web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: am...@westin-emission.no [SMTP:am...@westin-emission.no] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 3:17 PM > > To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org > > Subject: Company close down due to EMC phenomena > > > > > > Well, this might be the reality in a case I have been introduced to > > lately. > > > > Case: > > A company are manufacturing PowerLine Communication products. They > > communicate via the power lines and a typical link is between a > > consumer > > residence and the nearest power station. The products can of course > > also > > communicate inside the consumers residence. The communication > protocol > > is > > called CEBus http://www.cebus.org/which and make use of the > frequency > > band > > 100kHz-400kHz and the amplitude is approximate 2-5V. A typical > length > > of a > > transmission is 25ms and occurs approximate one time pr hour. > > > > First of all, AFAIK PowerLine Communication and PowerLine > Transmission > > (broadband 1.6MHz-30MHz) are now coming will full force in EU and > > CENELEC/ETSI are working together regulate this type of transmission > > path > > and also coming up with standards. > > > > The problem for the manufacturer is the conducted emission > > requirements in > > EU. According to the EN55022B levels the maximum quasi-peak emission > > is > > 66dBuV@150kHz, and a typical PLC (under transmission) which has been > > measured, showed the value of 120dBuV (peak). With no transmission > it > > had a > > margin of 10dB (quasi-peak) and 30dB (average). The radiated > emission > > had a > > margin of 10dB. > > > > Well, conducted emission is the problem when transmitting. But, as I > > said, > > the transmission occurs only 25ms/hour. > > > > The national authority will not allowed this product to be placed > into > > the > > marked because it do not fulfil the EN55022B limits (100kHz-400kHz) > > under > > transmission mode. No way. > > > > Other national authorities have other approaches on this case, they > > say " as > > long as you do not disturb other equipment, install it. If you do > > disturb, > > we will come and remove it". They also say " install it even if it > > does not > > fulfil EN550022B, but we will remove it if it disturb others". > > > > Two completely different approaches as you see. > > > > Questions: > > 1. Is it possible to have different approaches within EU ? > > 2. Since PLC/PLT is "quite new" technology and since we do not have > > any EU > > product standard (no standard for whose who are using 100kHz-400kHz > > band), I > > like the approach "as long as you do not disturb other equipment, > > install > > it. If you do disturb, we will come and remove it". What is your > > opinion > > about this? > > 3. The transmission occurs very seldom. 25ms/hour, that is 7e-6 and > > approximate 0,001% transmission rate. Can this seldom transmission > > rate be > > an argument to not test the PLC product under continuous > transmission > > ? I > > would say yes, but which rate is acceptable / reasonable ? > > > > So, why should the company close down ? Because if the national > > authority > > gets what they want, there will be one sale. Logical, but is it a > > correct > > prohibition the authority call? > > > > > > Best regards > > Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > > majord...@ieee.org > > with the single line: > > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > > Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org > > Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net > > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > > No longer online until our new server is brought online and the > > old messages are imported into the new server. > > ------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety > Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. > > Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ > > To cancel your subscription, send mail to: > majord...@ieee.org > with the single line: > unsubscribe emc-pstc > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org > Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org > Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > No longer online until our new server is brought online and the > old > messages are imported into the new server. ------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson: pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Heald davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
