Thanks for the input. Because our products are Laboratory Equipment and not Industrial Machines, I assume NFPA 79 would not apply. So the SCCR on the nameplate would not be required. It would be difficult to provide anyway. Since we are only required to provide supplementary over current protection the SCCR value is really unknown. Our Circuit Breaker manufacturer rates their parts with a 5kA SCCR but to my understanding they don't even have to survive the test. So the Branch Circuit Breaker is relied upon to provide the protection and the necessary SCCR value would be based on the Customer's power system.
The SCCR value is interesting to me. For those of you who has to design your products to meet a specific SCCR value, what do you design for? Are there typical values you shoot for? How high of value must you design for? So if you design for say 10kA and your customer wants 50kA what do you do? Thanks for the information regarding Arc Flash. I'm assuming that if our chassis (fire enclosure) meets the constructional requirements of IEC/EN/UL 61010-1 that it should contain an Arc Flash; especially with a 230VAC powered instrument where the energy to produce an Arc Flash is somewhat limited. I have also been asked by customers if our chassis meet the NEMA requirements. I assume the question is in regards to Arc Flash. Thanks again for the info. It was most helpful. The Other Brian -----Original Message----- From: Mr. Doug Nix C.E.T. [mailto:d...@ieee.org] Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 4:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Arc Flash Requirements NFPA 79 Dave, Brian, Electrical field inspectors commonly require that labels of the type I referenced be installed by the manufacturer. The detailed labels with the arc flash degree and the details on the PPE requirements can only be installed post installation and post arc-flash hazard analysis. This is a workplace requirement, and not a manufacturer requirement. Dave is correct about the Short-Circuit Withstand Rating (SCCR). This has been part of the nameplate requirements for many years. Doug On 24-Nov-14, at 16:10, Nyffenegger, Dave <dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com> wrote: > Over the years recently there has been more emphasis on arc flash due to > injuries. You can search on it. The issue is the potential for arc flash > when the control panels are open and powered by the electrician which can > cause clothing to catch fire. It's not so much an issue of containing an arc > flash within the enclosure, a fire enclosure should do this regardless. > > I asked our NRTL test engineer about arc flash warning label requirements a > few months ago and he pointed out that wording in NFPA 70 states that arc > flash warning labels are to be applied on site during machine installation. > There is not a requirement for the manufacturer to apply the warning. I > don't have my copy of NFPA 70 in front of me but I recall I confirmed the > wording. I recall I also confirmed the same on the OSHA web site. These > labels can be purchased off the shelf. > > NFPA-79: Sec. 16.4 requires the SCCR of electrical control panels to be put > on the product nameplate. UL 508A: Supplement SB has instructions for > determining SCCR. If your product doesn't contain an electrical control > panel and no internal branch circuits you may not need the rating. > > I've only had an NRTL certify to NFPA 79 for field labeling/marking. > > -Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 3:29 PM > To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > Subject: [PSES] Arc Flash Requirements NFPA 79 > > Our company produces Laboratory Equipment. We design to the IEC/EN/UL 61010-1 > series of standards and the NFPA 70 NEC. > > Some of our instruments can be quite large; slightly bigger than an upright > piano. They typically are powered by 230VAC, 20A to 50A branch circuits. It > is typical that our instruments are installed near or in a heavy industrial > environment even though they are not considered Industrial Machines. They are > sometimes mistaken as Industrial Machines. > > Recently, we have had customers ask the following questions about our > instruments: > > * Proof that the electrical system complies to NFPA 79. > * Are the electrical enclosures marked for arc flash hazard per NFPA 79? > * What is the Short Circuit Current Rating (SCCR) of our instruments? > > > Typically we simply reply that our instruments are not Industrial Machines > and that is that. However, if there is information we can provide that would > be helpful, we would like to do so. > > I can see where our customer may wish to power our instrument from a circuit > that is capable of producing very high short circuit current (SCC). If this > exceeds the 5kA rating of our internal Supplementary Protection Device, then > our customer would have to supply a Brach Circuit Breaker that can handle the > SCC. > > High SCC can also cause a concern for Arc Flash. I do not know the > requirements of NFPA 79 and how it affects Arc Flash. For instance, since > our chassis meets the mechanical requirements called out in IEC 61010-1, is > it likely that our chasses will contain the arc flash hazards? > > Is there any part of NFPA 79 that could apply to our instruments; to the > mechanical or electrical system? > > Has something changed recently which would explain why we are now receiving > these type of questions? > > Thanks for any input or advice. > > The Other Brian > > > > > ________________________________ > > LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential > information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by > mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society > emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your > e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used > formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com> ________________________________ LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>