Dave, et al,
I think that you are simplifying the discussion too much.
Certainly a wall-wart with an ELV output is not an electric shock hazard but
that is no guarantee that any NRTL wall-wart power supply will not start a fire
in any device which it powers; that can only be determined by inspection and
testing.
James, is your keyboard wireless?
The EU has long had an ELV exclusion for equipment under the
LVD. But, because of the issue raised here, there was an effort to remove that
in the last update to the LVD which, unfortunately, failed. So a partial fix
is that if a device has a radio in it must meet the Radio Equipment Directive
and that RED Directive encompasses all of the hazards such that the electrical
safety standards used under the LVD now apply except that the ELV exclusion is
eliminated; a step in the right direction, I believe. (So the LVD is not
invoked of itself when meeting the RED directive but the appropriate safety
standard is.)
Now it is obvious why Rich Nute’s Bluetooth mouse bears
appropriate safety marks.
:>) br, Pete
Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe 97281-3427
503/452-1201
IEEE Life Fellow
<mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org> p.perk...@ieee.org
From: Nyffenegger, Dave <dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 1:15 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] UL Listing of Computer Keyboard
This is generally true however there are plenty of examples of products for
sale as well as those used in the workplace that are simple in nature and/or
non-hazardous and do not carry an NRTL mark. For example, the stapler on your
desk or even the phone on your desk. If it plugs into a power outlet in the
wall it needs NRTL. A computer keyboard could have one but is it really
needed? The main reason a lot of OEMs use wall warts is they NRTL certify the
wall wart (or more likely source one from another OEM) but not the product that
it supplies power to as it doesn’t need it.
-Dave
From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com]
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2018 12:02 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: Re: [PSES] UL Listing of Computer Keyboard
Hi James,
Please note that the OSHA Nationally Recognized Test Laboratory (NRTL) will
verify your product to UL62368-1 standard (based on international IEC62368-1).
The OSHA regulation mandates that employers provide a safe working environment
for employees (and local building codes support those requirements) plus retail
stores don’t want to be sued for selling unsafe products if someone is harmed
or property damaged, so neither employers nor retail stores will buy or re-sell
a product that does not have a NRTL approval. As Darren notes, NRTL labs are
not just UL but also CSA, TUV Rheinland, TUV Sud, ETL (Intertek), Nemko, etc. A
full listing is at the web page below:
https://www.osha.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/nrtllist.html
Hope this helps.
Monrad
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 18, 2018, at 3:03 AM, CATHERINE PEARSON
<00000b0df63784fb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org
<mailto:00000b0df63784fb-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> > wrote:
Hi James,
Is UL listing mandatory for IT accessories like keyboards?
No any NRTL certification will be sufficient, but that may not be the question
or answer !
Depending where you are selling the equipment, they may expect a certain
certification mark,
Ive gotten many approvals for the USA market but its the customer who needs to
understand the requirements.
I had explained to my customer that they can have any suitable certification
mark and it will meet the requirements, TUV, CSA, UL etc
However once they were selling the device, there customer would ask "Wheres the
UL mark"
there customer was not technical and didn't understand or care to understand
there were alternatives, just "Wheres the UL mark"
Ive also found this with the building inspectors who should know better !
So for that job, nothing but UL would do.
In answer to "some retailers use it as a minimum requirement for stocking your
products"
Yes thats correct and you dont have much chance in convincing them to do
anything else.
I've been discussing this with the alternative approval bodies for a while,
that they need to improve the general public view of them so more people
understand that UL are only one of a number of options.
Ive worked with many approval bodies, some better than others, some not,
but as a general rule, avoid the customer service agents and deal straight with
the engineer at the testing lab and the person whos dealing with the approval.
I have to mention my current experience with UL is very good, but then ive
found myself a number of responsive people who reply to your Emails and are
happy to discuss the project with you.
10 years ago, it was a lot different !
Regards Darren.
On Monday, 18 June 2018, 9:40, James Pawson (U3C) <ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk
<mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk> > wrote:
Hi folks,
Working with a client at the moment on a computer keyboard (hence the earlier
question). I’m trying to get a handle on the applicability of UL listing and
could do with some help.
Is UL listing mandatory for IT accessories like keyboards? My searching so far
suggests that the answer is “no”. However, I’ve read that some retailers use it
as a minimum requirement for stocking your products – does anyone have any
experience or knowledge of this?
Assuming that UL listing was required (for whatever reason, OHSA?) presumably
an analysis against IEC 62368-1 would be sufficient or are there other
tests/requirements?
If anyone has a link to any docs with more information I’d like to do some more
reading up.
Thanks in advance
James
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