Hi Bernd: Flame retardancy that I am familiar with, UL 94 and its IEC clones, is really an ignition test, and less of a burning test. Flame-retardant materials under UL 94 will burn continuously with enough continuous heat. Some years ago, we proved this when we were testing TVs to determine whether HB or V0 was the best material rating. The test was with a candle flame (simulating an overturned candle) at various parts of the enclosure. Depending on the enclosure construction, the candle flame could create sustained burning of V0-rated material.
What I am saying is that the flame-retardant material rating is only good for ignition from a time-limited source. So, it is important that the heat or flame source in an electrical product is limited in time. Fires occur under product fault conditions. And, many electrically-caused fires start small. I like Pete's anecdote that an oxygen-limiting enclosure can slow (time-limit) or suppress the fire. Best regards, Rich -----Original Message----- From: Dürrer Bernd <bernd.duer...@wilo.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2019 1:34 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] AW: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics? Hello Richard, Thank you for sharing this interesting article. I remember from the Grenfell Tower fire discussion on this list, that Adam Dixon shared this UK data source for incidents: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/fire-statistics-data-tables This also includes statistics on the cause of fire: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/fire-statistics-data-tables#cause-of-fire As can be seen, cooking appliances, space heating appliances, central and water heating appliances, electrical distribution, and other electrical appliances are primary causes of fire. Therefore, the use of flame-retardants, especially in appliances intended for unattended operation, is more than justified by available data. In addition, the author of the article neglects that electronic components (much more than wooden furniture) contain other potentially harmful substances (when released to the environment) that are not related to fire prevention. Typically, these are contained in larger proportion in electronics than flame-retardants. So banning flame-retardants will only partly reduce environmental risks by increasing the risk of ignition. At least for electronic components, I do not support the claim that "companies typically do not share information on which flame retardants they use": To comply with EU's RoHS Directive and REACh regulation, we have requested Full Materials Disclosures (FMD) from our suppliers and the vast majority has supplied such data. As general source of reference to identify substances typically used as flame-retardants I recommend the IEC 62474 Declarable Substance List at http://std.iec.ch/iec62474. Kind regards, Bernd Von: Richard Nute <ri...@bendbroadband.com> Gesendet: Dienstag, 17. September 2019 01:00 An: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Betreff: Re: [PSES] Do We Need Flame Retardants in Electronics? Well, the obvious way to determine whether flame-retardants have reduced the incidence of death or injury is to stop using flame-retardants and compare before and after. The problem, of course, is if we are wrong… This is one argument that is often used to retain ALL requirements in safety standards. However, in many cases scientific or engineering analysis can show (or not show) that a requirement contributes to the product’s safety. I’m not aware of illness or injury due to any flame-retardant in normal operation of products, although there is plenty of evidence of illness and injury from the chemicals themselves and disposal of the products. Rich On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 2:32 PM Richard Nute <mailto:ri...@bendbroadband.com> wrote: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-we-need-flame-retardants-in-electronics/ “…there has never been any valid statistical demonstration that flame retardant chemicals of the types and concentrations used in consumer products have resulted in death or injury reduction,” says https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-furniture-flame-retardants-save-enough-lives-justify-environmental-damage/… The article is more than 5 years old. Nevertheless, thought-provoking. Enjoy! Rich - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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