After the trip yesterday the only lights on the infeed unit that was on was 3 external enable not present and 4 DC link charged. The spindle drive lcd was 6 iirc and the Z was 3. I could not find anything on what the drive lcd's mean.
I'm not having any luck in borrowing an isolation transformer but have got prices on one but the poor guy must think I'm nuts as I keep adding things... On 6/3/2012 7:59 PM, Dave wrote: > Hi John, > > On the top of section 6.3 in the PDF manual it says: > > "A switch S1 is provided on the upper side of the NE and monitoring > module that > is used to set the following functions (for UI 5 kW on the front side):" > > Below that line it shows the meanings of the dipswitch settings. > > The "NE" is the Infeed module. Siemens loves acronyms. :-( > > They have two types of infeed modules the I/R module which is an > Infeed/Regenerate module (common) and a UI module which is an > unregulated input module (I have no idea what it is used for). > > So you may have to remove your Infeed module to get to the side of it > and see the dipswitches. They are normally set and never changed. > > Regardless after reading the manual further, the only switch I would > consider changing would be the sine wave/square wave switch but I would > talk to Siemens tech support before doing that. > > According to your part number 6SN1145-1BA00-0BA0 for your infeed, you > have a 16 KW infeed module. Siemens is very insistent about using a > grounded Wye feed connection on this module ( Page 7-201 ) and they > state this > is because not using one might cause voltages to exceed the insulation > levels of the infeed module - which of course leads to failure. > > On Page 6-160 they talk about the lights on the front of the infeed > module and what they mean. If the lower right light was on, that is > described as: > > 6 LED red – DC link overvoltage > possible causes: Regenerative feedback off, setting–up operation, > line fault, for UI, PW either not operational or too small, > line supply voltage too high, dynamic overload, line filter > inserted between I/R and the commutating reactor > > It looks to me that the drive is having a problem dumping excess power > back to the power line via regeneration which happens whenever a drive > decels quickly, and the infeed module is overheating as a result. > > This is a good size drive system with a 16 KW infeed module. You must > have some pretty healthy axis drives as well, as this machine was > obviously meant to move fast. > > On page 7-202 they talk about sizing an isolation transformer for this > infeed module and the recommendation is something larger than 21 KVA. > They recommend a part number and it weighs about 300 lbs which seems > about right. > > If I were you I would go hunting for either an isolation transformer if > you want to still pursue the use of your phase converter or throw in the > towel and find a decent generator. Even when using a generator, having > an isolation transformer also might be a good idea just to protect the > 611 system. > > I'm afraid that if you push the 611 much further without at least an > isolation transformer something bad is going to happen and that could > get expensive. Obviously the drive system it is already being stressed > already - probabaly due to regeneration issues. If the drive can't > regenerate power back into the line to dump excess energy - it only has > one other way to get rid of that and that is for the drive system itself > to heat up - and that will only end badly. > > I looked on the web for that infeed module and the cheapest one I could > find used was $1300 from Classic Automation. > > Dave > > > > On 6/3/2012 11:43 AM, John Thornton wrote: >> My infeed looks like Fig 6-2 on page 6-143. >> >> John >> >> On 6/3/2012 9:44 AM, Dave wrote: >> >>> What is your S1-3 dipswitch switch settings on the infeed module? Do >>> you have regeneration back into the line turned on? >>> >>> That might be a situation that could cause thermal issues in the infeed >>> with the phase converter setup. I think the infeed might have some big >>> problems trying to regenerate into a phase converter. >>> >>> If S1-3 is off, then regeneration is enabled. That is the default setting. >>> >>> Also S1-6 is a switch for setting the input mode on the infeed module. >>> If it is on, then it is set for sinusoidal input operation ( the >>> default), but if it is off that setting is for use with square wave >>> input operation. ( I have no idea why this switch exists??) >>> If you call Siemens, ask them about S1-6. Obviously square waves have >>> all kinds of harmonics, and your phase converter is putting out >>> distorted sine waves (with harmonics), perhaps putting the infeed into >>> square wave mode would >>> make it much more tolerant of line noise ?? >>> >>> Or perhaps turning on square wave input mode along with disabling >>> regeneration might solve your problems? >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> On 6/3/2012 9:29 AM, John Thornton wrote: >>> >>>> On 6/2/2012 2:14 PM, Dave wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Unfortunately if he buys a transformer it still might not work. That >>>>> is why I would try and borrow one before opening my wallet for $1400. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I hope to borrow one before dumping more cash into this machine, as >>>> stiff as the phase converter is not I'm wondering if the infeed unit is >>>> weak... I did notice that my feed from the breaker panel to the RPC >>>> panel was a bit on the small side so I'll up the gauge on that as I have >>>> some 6 gauge SO cord laying about and see what that might do. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> The higher the %, the more voltage drop through the >>>>>>> transformer/reactor. So what John was saying is that the 611 system >>>>>>> can use up to a 3% reactor, but no more. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Can I assume then that when the BBLB syndrome is accounted for, that a 3% >>>>>> transformer is probably going to cost 50% more than the one yonder on the >>>>>> shelf that sells for 1.4G's or less in the size John needs? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Meaning the 611 >>>>>>> expects a very stiff power supply, which really does not surprise me as >>>>>>> it is a rather high performance drive system. Most of the machines >>>>>>> equipped with 611s that I have seen are serious industrial machines >>>>>>> where there is a 1000 amp 480 volt bus duct 50 feet from the machine, >>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Well, at some point it should become a discussion where the cost of >>>>>> switching the drives out for something that can tolerate a softer >>>>>> regulated >>>>>> power supply source is becoming one possible solution. I expect that >>>>>> Johns >>>>>> location, way off the main line, will account for the first 1.5% of that >>>>>> 3% >>>>>> budget. Thats item 1. Item 2 is the cost, and the 24/7 power used to >>>>>> power a ferroresonant regulator such as a Sola that big is a measurable >>>>>> percentage of his monthly power bill. They run HOT, he could heat the >>>>>> shop >>>>>> with it in cooler weather. But unlike the fans and/or AC, you can't turn >>>>>> them off when you don't need the heat. They are also frequency >>>>>> sensitive, >>>>>> enough so that driving it from the diesel generator is out unless it has >>>>>> a >>>>>> .5% governor and double the size needed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Those drives in that size range obviously aren't cheap. IMO, I'd be >>>>>> looking for parts to take his raw single phase, working into a full wave >>>>>> bridge rectifier, with a serious choke to maintain the power factor to >>>>>> something reasonable, and feed that into a switchmode regulator whose >>>>>> output was the 600 volt DC bus the rest of it needs. With proper design >>>>>> it >>>>>> is at least as efficient as the 60 HZ transformer, as its transformer is >>>>>> ferrite cored and running at 30 kilohertz, and probably moreso, and could >>>>>> hold that 600 volt buss at 600 with 0.01% regulation despite the startup >>>>>> sags it would impose on the input line. And it shouldn't cost, if such a >>>>>> beast is even available, any more than one of those 611 drives. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> The 611 infeed/power supply has a ribbon cable connection to the rest of >>>>> the drive bus and it communicates with the other modules, so it is very >>>>> much a smart drive system. If would be a major effort to make up a new >>>>> infeed unit and create the control signals to keep the rest of the >>>>> modules happy. The communications on the ribbon cable is proprietary. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I assumed that the ribbon cable did this... >>>> >>>> >>>>> So the availability of such a beast might be the controlling factor. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> One thing is for sure Dave, if I was 50 years younger and contemplating >>>>>> the >>>>>> purchase of a machine that had these drives it it, I would certainly >>>>>> discount my bid by the amount of headache this thread has become to John. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Bigger used 3 phase CNC machines oftentimes go for a lot less money than >>>>> slightly smaller CNC machines that run of single phase and this is >>>>> why. It has been a while, but I got the impression that John got that >>>>> machine at a very good price. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I paid $6k plus delivery about $750 or so and have about $3.5k in >>>> tooling for the beast... >>>> >>>> >>>>>> But that is the advantage of hindsight. ;-) What we need to do now is >>>>>> find a solution that Just Works(TM). The use of the limit2 module >>>>>> functioning as a digital miller integrator to control the start up speed >>>>>> ramp up, and the delta/wye isolation transformer, which will add its 3 or >>>>>> 4% to the mix, might be the best solution for John. How that will fare >>>>>> if >>>>>> a big inch face mill is installed remains to be determined. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, Gene >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Emc-users mailing list >>>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Emc-users mailing list >>>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Live Security Virtual Conference >>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Emc-users mailing list >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Live Security Virtual Conference >> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and >> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions >> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware >> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Emc-users mailing list >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. 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