I think you only have to disable the ones referencing 2.7. If you remove all of the Linuxcnc references you lose the general Linuxcnc repositories that fill a lot of dependencies that are not in the normal Debian repositories. That will likely cause problems such as your TCL dependency problem.
Todd Zuercher P. Graham Dunn Inc. 630 Henry Street Dalton, Ohio 44618 Phone: (330)828-2105ext. 2031 -----Original Message----- From: Gene Heskett <ghesk...@shentel.net> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:40 AM To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC [EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe. On Thursday 16 September 2021 04:16:51 John Dammeyer wrote: > Hi Andy, > Long answer... Finally, somebody said it. I've read thru John's comments and he's nailed it. Our wiki entries about using synaptic are at times equivalent to swahili to an Iowa farm kid like me. And synaptic itself is just as guilty. With a tested IQ of 147, I still have to ask for clairification. > I did untick all the items. I did not delete them. > > There is a basic assumption (generally incorrect I think) that the end > user following the instructions actually knows what the instructions > mean. It's like trying to learn to write in a language you don't > speak having only the dictionary as a reference. Or learning a > language having only a dictionary. > > Many of the LinuxCNC instruction help files are written like > dictionaries with an assumption that the user of that dictionary is > already fluent in the language. Or they are step by step instructions > that don't handle the slightest deviation like a misspelled reference. > Totally my fault. > > You see it in the Linux code too. My Computing Science professors > would have failed me on many of my courses if I documented the way > that code is documented. But I'm digressing and off topic. > > Let's take a look at the screen shot I posted which I've attached > again for convenience. I did not know _what_ I was supposed to see in > the Synaptic Package Manager after I entered in the 'new' line in the > Repositories screen. > > Notice I didn't call it the "software sources" window. From the > upgrading doc: "In Synaptic, click on the Settings menu, then click > Repositories to open the Software Sources window" I spent a while > looking for menu entries or buttons marked "Software Sources". I > finally decided "Repositories" which is the title of that dialog box, > must be "Software Sources". > > Which is the: > "In the Software Sources window, select the Other Software tab." > Perhaps 2.8 has that? 2.7.14 did not. > > Couldn't find the: > "Click Add Source, then Close in the Software Sources window. If it > pops up a window informing you that the information about available > software is out-of-date, click the Reload button." > > What I did was click on the "New" button which added an non checked > empty line at the bottom of the list. I then filled in from the > _untitled_ table above the screen shot all the three lines misspelling > rtpreempt. > > Then clicked on OK which then resulted in the dialog stating that > Reload would happen if I clicked OK. Which I did. > > So back up there for a sec: > "Delete or un-check all the old linuxcnc.org entries (leave all > non-linuxcnc.org lines as they are). " > > Not explained is the difference between Delete or un-check and why > I'd do one or the other. So we're back to the foreign language > dictionary defining words but not the context. > > As an aside and in many ways nothing to do with this... > ------- > Verwijder of deselecteer alle oude linuxcnc.org-vermeldingen (laat > alle niet-linuxcnc.org-regels zoals ze zijn). > > The above was from Google Translate which does a pretty good job of > translating them back and forth. Verwijder means Delete according to > Google Translate but it's a relatively new definition. Use my 1991 > Dutch to English Dictionary and the word is Verwijderen which is > remove, take out, expel say from school. So Remove is close enough. > ------- > > So why would I not delete? Why only uncheck. I had 4 different > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flinuxcnc.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ca619ac85c6ea4237423008d979179881%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637673964952194781%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Bn0xgRrgG%2B544mUMHwC%2FdGlW5XxZVNlJG6gIjZewy3o%3D&reserved=0 > lines. They were in pairs of deb and deb-src. > Only by highlighting do you get the URL, Distriburion and Section(s). > > So I clicked OK, did the Reload. Nothing happened. I think this is > another place where the document could be improved. What it should > look like before, if I just deselect and then reload; what it should > look like if I delete and reload. They are different! > > Now that I know maybe the document would be redundant. But if I don't > know what I don't know how can I figure out what's wrong? > > If the 'Reloaded' screen doesn't show a linuxcnc-doc-en marked :2.8._ > then something went wrong. Check spelling and spaces or hyphens. > > In the above text I've shown there are a number of errors in dialog > box descriptions and buttons. I've also shown that giving a use the > option to deselect or remove without a reason for either or what to > expect in the _two_ possibilities also leads to confusion. > > Finally I feel the software needs to check what is in the 'Section(s)' > field and if it can't find that in linuxcnc.org then throwing up a > dialog message with a suggestion should be the minimum with the ideal > being a list of selections that start with 2.8-... > > Hope that helps. The most difficult part of software is the user > interface and human factors design. > > Here's another small aside you can ignore if you want. > Go way way back in time and in North America the research done showed > that humans have trouble with more than 7 choices. It's why they set > up the telephone system with 3 and 4 digits. IBM did extensive > research on menu's and the number of items in a menu. Again more than > 7 and people made mistakes. > > I worked for a savings and trust company back in the late 70's. Same > thing. Menus were kept shorter than 7 selections. We found the > tellers and operators would go the wrong way if there were too many > choices and have trouble backing out when the menu's looked 'almost' > the same. > > There were two prevalent word processors at the beginning of the > micro-computer usage. Wordstar (and programmers WordMaster) and Word > Perfect. Wordstar was totally intuitive using the Ctrl key and the > pattern of keys arranged for up/down etc. with the left hand. > Microsoft word only retained a few of those keys using instead the > letter of the key for the operation in the same way that Wordperfect > did. > > What was interesting is listening to a secretary teach someone how to > print a document with Word Perfect which won the office word processor > war until Microsoft Windows showed up with WORD. They didn't explain > why or what they were supposed to do. They taught you do an F8 F7 F6 > F6 Shift F9. (I made up this sequence). As long as they memorized > the sequence they didn't need to know what or why they were doing. > Only that after the last button the printer woke up and created a > document. (dot matrix, took a while). > > It's easy to go the direction of F8 F7 F6 F6 Shift F9 until something > goes wrong... > > Hope there's enough there to improve the document. > > John Dammeyer > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com] > > Sent: September-15-21 11:48 PM > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Safely Upgrading LinuxCNC > > > > On Wed, 15 Sept 2021 at 23:13, John Dammeyer > > <jo...@autoartisans.com> wrote: > > > So the upgrade document needs a bit of work with some guidance on > > > what needs to be removed in order for this to work. > > > > I thought that > > > > "Delete or un-check all the old linuxcnc.org entries (leave all > > non-linuxcnc.org lines as they are)." > > > > Was fairly clear. Can you propose a wording that would have been > > clear to you? (maybe "un-tick" for some locales?) > > > > -- > > atp > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > > lunatics." > > George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fli > > sts.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01% > > 7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ca619ac85c6ea4237423008d979179881%7C57585 > > 44c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637673964952194781%7CUnknown%7 > > CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJ > > XVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qFyIWzShtddViu8dWmAeFil0AGSQ1q%2Fr10qPQ > > TPshAI%3D&reserved=0 Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis Genes Web page <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgeneslinuxbox.net%3A6309%2Fgene&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ca619ac85c6ea4237423008d979179881%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637673964952194781%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qtHIvjXW2lRWEeQd8y%2FAPY%2BwtFUjsc3n3KDbylhVYZ4%3D&reserved=0> _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-users&data=04%7C01%7Ctoddz%40pgrahamdunn.com%7Ca619ac85c6ea4237423008d979179881%7C5758544c573f47cebee96c3e0806fb43%7C0%7C0%7C637673964952194781%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qFyIWzShtddViu8dWmAeFil0AGSQ1q%2Fr10qPQTPshAI%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
