2012/6/20 Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com>: > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 02:06:18 +1000 David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> said: > >> On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:29:57 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) >> <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: >> >> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 00:47:40 +1000 David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> >> > said: >> > >> > > > > It's the "when you bring it up" part that's the problem. Tabs >> > > > > don't need to be "brought up" to show you the info they >> > > > > display. You don't have to do anything to keep an eye on >> > > > > programs that change the tab text to show you progress or >> > > > > something important other than look up (on the tabs that's not >> > > > > the one you are using right now). You don't have to do anything >> > > > > to see which tab is which when you carefully name them. This >> > > > > is not better for those uses of tabs. It hides the info you >> > > > > want to see at a glance and makes it a separate step to get to >> > > > > that info. >> > > > > >> > > > > Most of my terminal tabs are running MC, some on the same >> > > > > directories, they will look identical or almost identical in a >> > > > > thumbnail that's small enough to show them all. That's not >> > > > > gonna help me at all. >> > > > > >> > > > > Doing something different is good, it's just not "better" if it >> > > > > removes useful functionality. Your idea is good, it just >> > > > > removes useful functionality that is provided with tabs. It's >> > > > > no substitute for tabs, it's something completely different. >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > The tabs themselves aren't very useful either. All they do is >> > > > show the terminal title, which is useless most of the time, so >> > > > you wont be able to differentiate between them if you just sat >> > > > down in front of that terminal for the first time. At the end of >> > > > the day, most of us probably use hotkeys to jump between tabs, >> > > > and that will work just as well in a wp2 context. >> > > >> > > You don't quite understand what I'm saying. Those terminal titles >> > > in the tabs is EXACTLY the functionality that would be missed. They >> > > contain information that is useful some times to some people. That >> > >> > you made my point for me.. SOME of the time SOME people want just a >> > title. SOME. ... MOST don't go run the exact same identical thing so >> > its unrecognisable in N tabs. optimize for the common case first. >> >> You where not talking about optimising a common case, you where talking >> about throwing out the antiquated idea of tabs coz you thought you >> could do it better. I'm pointing out that "better" does not mean >> throwing away perfectly good functionality. > > correct because only SOME of the time a tab (the text in the title) contains > something useful and unique to identify which one it is you want. some quick > statistics about the engineers around me now. i walked around desks looking at > their terminals. we have 3 groups > > 1. no tabs > 2. lots of tabs (5-20) > 3. 2-3 tabs > > 1 is about 40% > 2 is about 40% (with half of them having all tabs with identical titles) > 3 is about 20% (about half these also have non-unique titles on tabs) > > so about 10% of people use tabs and have them easily visible so u can identify > each by title. we CAN do better. i never said we don't display text on > thumbnails. i simply object to slavishly copying tabs because you don't have a > better idea. i have a better idea. i want to do it when i get around to > multiple terminals in a single terminology process. > >> Sooo, programs want to display their little bit of text on the term >> title / tab for whatever reason. Where does this little bit of text >> go? A tab is the perfect spot for it. You still have not answered the >> basic fundamental problem, how are you replacing this functionality >> with your "better" idea? > > mouseover with thumbnails (cans tick titles on them too) near top with > auto-scroll left/right ala gadget autoscroll in shelf. hit a keybinding or > mouse binding (ctrl+right mouse?) or a finger gesture to bring up a grid of > thumbs (yes they can also have text titles too) sorted by opening order (so > they always stay in the same location relative to others) but sized and > highlighted based on recent use and/or activity. can select with arrow keys, > maybe tab etc. or with mouse. auto slide apart with preview seen through the > items in the selector ala wp2 with a keycombo to "go back to selector mode" or > after a short timeout fly away off the screen and disappear. keybindings for > switching next/prev term of course with absolute binds (eg alt+1/2/3/)... but > no TABS always there eating up room. when a non-visible term gets bell - we > can > slide out a small notification on the side - click on it or hit special > keycombo to switch to that term. stack them ala notifications. also have > pseudo-notification. if an idle term starts outputting text then also put up a > "bell" notification - or if it stops displaying (eg compile finished)... > > we can do better. i intend to try. > >> You are only implementing half the functionality, and trying to brush >> off the other half coz it does not fit into your idea of what a flash >> program should look like. Most people are not expecting flash from a >> terminal program. > > incorrect on the first bit. correct on the second. it doesn't fit in with > what i > imagine can be done and done better. > >> You can make it flash all you want, but if it's only doing half the >> job, you can't call it "better". >> >> Most people don't want to show a video as the background for their >> terminal. Can't say you are optimising for any common case there. lol > > its part of infra for a much more common case that isnt done yet. you don't > know it yet as it isnt done yet. that fact that putting video in os so dead > simple and easy means i did it now as its unique and trivial, but it also adds > to infra. you didn't look apparently but the media smart is a whole smart obj > - > not just dumbly bg only. it also has a MODE - currently only MEDIA_BG mode is > there - but the point is to add more so u can: > > ecat file.jpg > > and it displays there in your terminal between prompts > > $ ecat file.jpg > +---------+ > | | > | | > +---------+ > $ cat file.pdf > +----------------+ > | | > | | > | | > +----------------+ > > +----------------+ > | | > | | > | | > +----------------+ > > u can read all the pages in a pdf doc right there in your term. add cmd-line > options to specify specific pages or zoom levels. display svg's as well and in > fact any content efl is able to load and display easily. > > now extend your mind to make that a video file - playing live inline WITH > play.pause/seek controls... > > now extend your mind and imagine it also is music with no image/video visible > BUT with player controls. imagine all these are part of your BACKSCROLL and so > u can scroll back to previously ecat'd files and look at them AGAIN. all ecat > is doing is emtting custom escapes to terminology to tell it to do the heavy > lifting display work. terminology doesnt have to keep all images and videos > in memory and alive - it just needs to know that one was queued there and the > media src. it can re-load async in the bg as u scroll so as not to use memory > when u dont have them around or to pause/stop the scrolling. > > the fact is that in efl doing the display of image data is trivial and i had > some fun doing it on sunday. thats all it took to make all of these work - > from > scalable images thru to bitmap, animated gifs AND video and also work on other > elements of terminology too. it's infra for something i know i will need > later. > > i don't use tabs, so its not on the top of my priority list, but i OFTEN am in > a src dir with png's and jpg's and i want to quickly see them as thumnbnails > and i dont want to bother with a separate window and image display app. i want > to cat them or ls them and just see them. saves me a lot of time and bother > and > makes me more productive. more so than tabs, so it's ahead in my priority > list. > if you are expecting me to implement "multiple terminals inside 1 process > window" then u will have to wait for it to pop out of my list of things to do, > or... do it yourself. > >> It's not like tabs is harder than what you want to do. You just think >> it's too old fashioned to WANT to do it. >> >> -- >> A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants >> coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. > > > -- > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
I NEEEEED ls *.png displaying thumbs ! Why nobody do that before ? -- Nicolas Aguirre Mail: aguirre.nico...@gmail.com Web: http://enna.geexbox.org Blog: http://dev.enlightenment.fr/~captainigloo/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
