On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 10:12:23 +1000 David Seikel <onef...@gmail.com> said:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 00:15:25 +0100 Vincent Torri > <vincent.to...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Maxime Villard <rusty...@gmx.fr> > > wrote: > > > Le 17/12/2012 01:10, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) a écrit : > > >> the reasons are many but here are some: > > >> > > >> 1. devs are almost all on linux... so guess what? they support the > > >> os they work on. > > >> 2. frankly linux has much more momentum than the bsd's (excluding > > >> osx as you say) and that lead as i see is only increasing. > > >> 3. the only other really "relevant" platforms are probably osx and > > >> windows. both of these can be dealt with. yes i know about psl1ght > > >> and many other more niche users. evil is there to fill in gaps for > > >> windows. it can provide shm _open by opening a file on disk and > > >> mmaping it like it already does. if there is an ability to force a > > >> file in windows to never be flushed to disk unless memory pressure > > >> would force it to be swapped out to the pagefile - then this is > > >> effectively the same behaviour... except it survivies a reboot. > > >> for osx - if there is a tmpfs that lives in ram, an shm_open can > > >> be provided that redirects to there. i don't know if there is - no > > >> osx. 4. for decades linux users have been at the bad end of the > > >> stick with people simply saying "well be posix compliant! make > > >> your own drivers" we won't support you!"... the tables are > > >> turning. slowly - in bits and pieces. and most linux users/devs > > >> are of the mindset of "we had to support oursevles for years... > > >> and so we did. time you did the same". :) > > >> > > >> the issues on the most part can be solved. the problem is that for > > >> the vast number of the core devs.. it's not THEIR issue (with some > > >> exceptions - yes vincent... :) i know :)). ecore-extn was > > >> optionally compileable before because i know it uses shm_open and > > >> so i made it an option. it also brought in ecore-con and > > >> ecore-ipc. these options are going away now though, so the problem > > >> is no longer going to be avoided. cserve2 - similar story. we've > > >> had cserve for years now and no one uses it - it was optional. > > >> cserve2 will become mandatory because it NEEDS to be tested and > > >> exercised en-masse. without something like cserve2 - we will bloat > > >> out badly if people write actual efl APPS. cserve2 is there to > > >> help contain that bloat before it begins. people are already > > >> writing efl apps, so it solves and existing problem anyway. the > > >> issues just need solving. in both the eore-extn code and in > > >> cserve2, the shm_open/mmap stuff is encapsulated and easy to > > >> replace etc. - it just has not been because of the above. the devs > > >> all have systems that have shm_open... so its not a priority for > > >> us and your todo lists are forever full. example. there is a case > > >> with ecore-extn where u can easly get a lock deadlock if you use > > >> it in a certain way. reality is people do use it that way and that > > >> problem is by far more important to me than shm_open stuff. :) > > > > > > So, excepted me, nobody uses and feels concerned by BSD's ? > > > > they don't care about other OSs. They work exclusively on linux and > > don't even try to think about other OSs. It implies that a port for > > another OS than linux has to implement very bad hacks and a ton of > > work, like i did for Windows, to try to *mimic* what is done with > > linux. > > For at least one of the large projects I'm involved in, there's always > people screaming for a Mac version. I have to patiently explain to > them that A) I'm poor and can't afford a Mac for development. B) Apple > wont let people do Mac development on a non Apple computer, so I can't > legally use a VM like I do for Windows development. > > I dunno about Mac OSX being a "proper" BSD, but I do care about it > enough on behalf of my users that I hope EFL stuff works there when I > can finally afford a development Mac. I also hope that Mac and BSD are > close enough that supporting one mostly works for the other. > > I care about Android, coz I think smart phones are the next > generation. I don't care about iPhone, coz Apple makes it way to > expensive to develop for them, and too tightly controlled. > > I care about Linux, coz that's my OS of choice. > > So I care about other OS's, even if it's a big pain in the arse. i think you made the point well.. caring and actually going and spending the time/money on each and every os out there is another matter. to care and think about it is what we do, but it's often a "well this can be solved on these other platforms somehow - so that's a bridge to cross when/if we get there.". i can't cross that bridge with windows in any easy form. it will take me an immense amount of time to set up a development env on the only machine i have that has windows (dual boot), or spend money on a windows licensed copy for a vmware setup and also spend that time... then i have to, as you mention... buy a mac... then i need to set up vm's to install openbsd, freebsd, netbsd, blahblahblah... and each and every one i have to read up on, adapt to, set up a development environment and so on - and this all costs a MOUNTAIN of time. i have no spare time as-is. i am "time poor". hell - i'm like a homeless begger when it comes to time. i spend EVERY WEEKEND WORKING ON E and EFL. every day during the week. i barely get enough sleep. on weekends my only interruptions are some shopping for things i need and the odd social thing with my gf. and this is the case every week of the year almost without exception. every day of the week, i wake up - do email, fix svn issues, spend > 1hr commuting to work (and back home). i spend all day at work... other than that i just eat and sleep. i have no time already. where do i find them time to install/adapt to and learn half a dozen new os's? that's why there is a community. that's why it's thought about to the point of "can be solved" and then left up to the people who already have done that os adaption to do the solving, as they have the build environments and actual os there and working. they know it already. if you expect us to do everything for you - then be prepared for e and efl to move much more slowly. -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. 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