At Sun, 3 Nov 2013 22:24:50 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 3 Nov 2013 07:46:38 -0500 Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com> said: > > > At Sun, 3 Nov 2013 14:16:58 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > > <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 11:03:28 -0400 Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com> > > > said: > > > > > > > At Sat, 2 Nov 2013 23:36:23 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > > > > <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 09:57:49 -0400 Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com> > > > > > said: > > > > > > > > > > > At Sat, 2 Nov 2013 20:58:03 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > > > > > > <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 07:48:23 -0400 Robert Heller > > > > > > > <hel...@deepsoft.com> said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At Sat, 2 Nov 2013 18:22:57 +0900 Enlightenment developer list > > > > > > > > <enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 02:17:32 -0400 Jose Gonzalez > > > > > > > > > <jose_...@juno.com> said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carsten wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 05:57:59 -0400 Jose Gonzalez > > > > > > > > > > > <jose_...@juno.com> said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Carsten wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 00:40:42 +0000 Andrew F > > > > > > > > > > >>> <andrewfriedman...@gmail.com> said: > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Hey guys, can someone point me to documentation that > > > > > > > > > > >>>> explains what a swallow is? > > > > > > > > > > >>>> and how its used. > > > > > > > > > > >>>> thanks > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> swallow the name is something i adopted from fvwm2 days > > > > > > > > > > >>> - > > > > > > > > > > >>> it had swallow stuff... and swallows in edje are the > > > > > > > > > > >>> same > > > > > > > > > > >>> thing basically - just with objects. > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> didn't you see my link to the swallow docs? > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> https://build.enlightenment.org/job/nightly_efl_gcc_x86_64/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/doc/html/group__Edje__Part__Swallow.html#ga97d1419f89bff20ba971e47c78641271 > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> its there in the efl online docs (thats the latest auto > > > > > > > > > > >>> nightly doc build). > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >> Good lord man, yes that's a nice bit of history but > > > > > > > > > > >> do > > > > > > > > > > >> you now want him to look up fwm2's docs as well! :) > > > > > > > > > > >> Also, I can't even access that link you gave... And > > > > > > > > > > >> where is the old pdf that had edje documentation (the > > > > > > > > > > >> edje > > > > > > > > > > >> cookbook or something)? > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Anyway, why not give a simple explanation of the > > > > > > > > > > >> thing > > > > > > > > > > >> rather than beat around the bush... Something short but > > > > > > > > > > >> to > > > > > > > > > > >> the heart of the matter, like say: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because of the comments that "efl has no docs so its > > > > > > > > > > > impossible to use - this is undocumented anywhere". give a > > > > > > > > > > > man a fish - you feed him for a day. teach a man to fish > > > > > > > > > > > and you feed him for a lifetime. i'm pointing to the docs > > > > > > > > > > > so he can keep looking around and refer to them for more > > > > > > > > > > > questions etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That works both ways. People who ask questions aren't > > > > > > > > > > necessarily idiots and maybe efl devs can benefit from a bit > > > > > > > > > > more practice in directly and concisely answering their > > > > > > > > > > questions - that way not only do they address the particular > > > > > > > > > > issue at hand but also maybe find it easier to write clear > > > > > > > > > > documentation as they go along writing code.... and even > > > > > > > > > > then, no single wording will ever be clear to everyone. > > > > > > > > > > Remember another cliche: If a thing is truly clear then no > > > > > > > > > > explanation is ever needed. And if it's not, then it's worth > > > > > > > > > > explaining again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > given this thread... it appears the original poster/question > > > > > > > > > never even found yhe docs hat are there at all, so pointing to > > > > > > > > > them is the firs port of call imho. if THEY do not suffice - > > > > > > > > > then that is a different matter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The docs did not suffice. The explaination below is more than > > > > > > > > anything I founf in the docs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but we never even got to that point until now - the docs did tell > > > > > > > you what a swallow is... that the parent takes control of geometry > > > > > > > etc. that api says that. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > The only thing in the PDF doc were a couple of *examples* and no > > > > > > real > > > > > > explaination of what it all *means*. The examples alone is not > > > > > > enough > > > > > > (for me). There wasn't any API docs in the PDF at all. I did: > > > > > > > > > > > > make doc > > > > > > cd doc > > > > > > make refman.pdf > > > > > > xpdf refman.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > I *expected* some sort of useful explaination, but it was not there. > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought that my original message was clear that I found the docs I > > > > > > found were not useful. > > > > > > > > > > the docs i pointed to - the html ones that we actually look at once we > > > > > write docs, and put on line did explain. we DONT put pdf docs online. > > > > > we don't look at them or check. i know there are issues with doxygen > > > > > +latex and thus the pdf stuff wont work right. > > > > > > > > > > putting "edje swallow" into google for me brings up a lot of refs.. #3 > > > > > is the page with the api ref that tells you what a swallow is. > > > > > > > > > > my point here is - you do not like/want to use html docs. you must > > > > > have > > > > > pdf ones printed. alas that doesn't work with doxygen and there is a > > > > > lot of work > > > > > > > > It *DOES* work with doxygen -- I do it all the time with *my* code > > > > (see: > > > > http://www.deepsoft.com/modelrailroadsystem/). > > > > > > it doesn't work for us. the tex won't compile to pdf. can't even make a > > > dvi. > > > latex is most unhappy. (a series of sty files not found then ! Undefined > > > control sequence.). and an endless chain of latex complaints. you are the > > > first person to ever ask about the latex (printed) documents - everyone > > > else asks for html. it just doesn't work for efl. doxygen generates latex > > > that just wont "build". > > > > > > 2:05PM ~/C/efl/doc/latex > make > > > rm -f *.ps *.dvi *.aux *.toc *.idx *.ind *.ilg *.log *.out *.brf *.blg > > > *.bbl > > > refman.pdf pdflatex refman > > > This is pdfTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.5-1.40.14 (TeX Live 2013/Arch Linux) > > > restricted \write18 enabled. > > > entering extended mode > > > (./refman.tex > > > LaTeX2e <2011/06/27> > > > Babel <3.9f> and hyphenation patterns for 78 languages loaded. > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/book.cls > > > Document Class: book 2007/10/19 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/bk10.clo)) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/tools/calc.sty) (./doxygen.sty > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/alltt.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/tools/array.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/float/float.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/ifthen.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/tools/verbatim.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/xcolor/xcolor.sty > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/latexconfig/color.cfg) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/pdftex-def/pdftex.def > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/oberdiek/infwarerr.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/oberdiek/ltxcmds.sty)) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/colortbl/colortbl.sty)) > > > > > > ! LaTeX Error: File `xtab.sty' not found. > > > > > > Type X to quit or <RETURN> to proceed, > > > or enter new name. (Default extension: sty) > > > > > > Enter file name: > > > ) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/graphics/graphicx.sty > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/graphics/keyval.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/graphics/graphics.sty > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/graphics/trig.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/latexconfig/graphics.cfg))) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/inputenc.sty > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/utf8.def > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/t1enc.dfu) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/ot1enc.dfu) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/omsenc.dfu))) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/makeidx.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/tools/multicol.sty) > > > > > > ! LaTeX Error: File `multirow.sty' not found. > > > > > > Type X to quit or <RETURN> to proceed, > > > or enter new name. (Default extension: sty) > > > > > > Enter file name: > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/textcomp.sty > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/ts1enc.def > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/ts1enc.dfu))) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/fontenc.sty > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/t1enc.def)) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/psnfss/mathptmx.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/psnfss/helvet.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/psnfss/courier.sty) > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amsfonts/amssymb.sty > > > (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amsfonts/amsfonts.sty)) > > > > > > ! LaTeX Error: File `sectsty.sty' not found. > > > > > > Type X to quit or <RETURN> to proceed, > > > or enter new name. (Default extension: sty) > > > > > > Enter file name: > > > ! Undefined control sequence. > > > l.22 \allsectionsfont > > > {% > > > > > > > You appearently have a broken install of LaTeX: > > > > gollum.deepsoft.com% locate sectsty.sty > > /usr/share/texmf/tex/latex/sectsty/sectsty.sty > > gollum.deepsoft.com% rpm -qf /usr/share/texmf/tex/latex/sectsty/sectsty.sty > > tetex-latex-3.0-33.15.el5_8.1 > > gollum.deepsoft.com% locate xtab.sty > > /usr/share/texmf/tex/latex/xtab/xtab.sty > > gollum.deepsoft.com% rpm -qf /usr/share/texmf/tex/latex/xtab/xtab.sty > > tetex-latex-3.0-33.15.el5_8.1 > > gollum.deepsoft.com% locate multirow.sty > > /usr/share/texmf/tex/latex/multirow/multirow.sty > > gollum.deepsoft.com% rpm -qf > > /usr/share/texmf/tex/latex/multirow/multirow.sty > > tetex-latex-3.0-33.15.el5_8.1 > > > > This is on a CentOS 5.10 system. > > that today was on arch (relatively up to date). i've had similar issues before > on older ubuntu installs too. i chalked it up to doxygen output being broken > for the kind of content/setup that efl ends up producing. No, it is broken packaging on the part of arch... > > btw - what is it about people having servers named gollum... they keep popping > up all the time. :) Gollum is not a server. It is my laptop. It travels. My desktop is a big black tower system named 'sauron'... > > > > etc. etc. - it'll go on forever. > > > > > > > > for us to do. :) after all the effort to document things etc. and all > > > > > this discussion on how bad the docs are, this kind of mail doesn't > > > > > encourage docs to be worked on if they are not used. :( it's a lot of > > > > > work to write them. it's a sheer wast of time to write docs that are > > > > > not used when they are plainly available, trivially searchable etc. > > > > > etc. :( yes - i know they can be better, but i really ask as kindly as > > > > > i can - use the docs we have already. if your preferred way to read > > > > > docs is to print them out then... read - you'll find it basically > > > > > impossible. search tools - be they grep or google are going ot get you > > > > > the info you want 100 times faster. > > > > > > > > Actually not with dial-up Internet... (Yes, really, I have dial-up > > > > Internet, not by choice, but because it is all that is available where I > > > > live and work.) > > > > > > that's rather ... surprising. (and i have to say shocking for me when i > > > sit > > > down here with 100mbit duplex fibre - and this is standard here)... > > > > > > but google still will be faster than flipping through pages of paper - > > > much > > > faster. every technical book i have ever read, i have sat there and gone > > > "why can't i just grep this thing?" and become frustrated. > > > > > > try "make doc" inside any efl lib tree. you'll get docs built (tex, html > > > and > > > manpages - yes... MANUAL PAGES!). look in doc/ and find the dirs (html, > > > man,latex). > > > > > > the latex docs just don't work. they haven't worked for as long as i can > > > remember. doxygen generates something totally wrong/weird/invalid. why - i > > > don't know and i have never spent time to find out since we have working > > > html docs that the vast majority of people want. :) > > > > > > for you you are a special case and "make doc" may help you and give you > > > local html docs. you can print them if you so desire. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> An edje object is a particular kind of container evas > > > > > > > > > > >> object (also called evas smart objects). In the edc > > > > > > > > > > >> description, an edje object is defined as a 'group'. > > > > > > > > > > >> As a container object, it has child objects and > > > > > > > > > > >> these > > > > > > > > > > >> are declared in the edc as various kinds of 'parts' > > > > > > > > > > >> within > > > > > > > > > > >> that group. There are parts like 'rectangle' and 'image', > > > > > > > > > > >> for example, which are of known type. But an edje can > > > > > > > > > > >> also > > > > > > > > > > >> have child evas objs of any sort by declaring 'swallow' > > > > > > > > > > >> parts in its edc. The 'swallow' C-api is what then > > > > > > > > > > >> enables > > > > > > > > > > >> you to programatically add an arbitrary evas object (that > > > > > > > > > > >> you've obtained somehow) as a child of the edje so as to > > > > > > > > > > >> 'fill' whatever declared swallow part. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> ............ > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> Now, where's that iMenu? And E shell-skinning? And > > > > > > > > > > >> improved Exchange server? And ...... :) > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Do THIS before eating carbs (every time) > > > > > > > > > > 1 EASY tip to increase fat-burning, lower blood sugar & > > > > > > > > > > decrease fat storage > > > > > > > > > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/52749964d20e3195d1a40st02duc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Android is increasing in popularity, but the open > > > > > > > > > > development > > > > > > > > > > platform that developers love is also attractive to malware > > > > > > > > > > creators. Download this white paper to learn more about > > > > > > > > > > secure > > > > > > > > > > code signing practices that can help keep Android apps > > > > > > > > > > secure. > > > > > > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com > > > > > > > > Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ > > > > > > > > () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail > > > > > > > > /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development > > > > > > > > platform that developers love is also attractive to malware > > > > > > > > creators. Download this white paper to learn more about secure > > > > > > > > code signing practices that can help keep Android apps secure. > > > > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com > > > > > > Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ > > > > > > () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail > > > > > > /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com > > > > Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ > > > > () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail > > > > /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com > > Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ > > () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail > > /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments > > > > > > > > > > -- Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development platform that developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep Android apps secure. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
