On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 11:03:28 -0400 Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com> said:
> At Sat, 2 Nov 2013 23:36:23 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 09:57:49 -0400 Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com> said: > > > > > At Sat, 2 Nov 2013 20:58:03 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) > > > <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2 Nov 2013 07:48:23 -0400 Robert Heller <hel...@deepsoft.com> > > > > said: > > > > > > > > > At Sat, 2 Nov 2013 18:22:57 +0900 Enlightenment developer list > > > > > <enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 02 Nov 2013 02:17:32 -0400 Jose Gonzalez <jose_...@juno.com> > > > > > > said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Carsten wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 05:57:59 -0400 Jose Gonzalez > > > > > > > > <jose_...@juno.com> said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Carsten wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 00:40:42 +0000 Andrew F > > > > > > > >>> <andrewfriedman...@gmail.com> said: > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>>> Hey guys, can someone point me to documentation that explains > > > > > > > >>>> what a swallow is? > > > > > > > >>>> and how its used. > > > > > > > >>>> thanks > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>> swallow the name is something i adopted from fvwm2 days - it > > > > > > > >>> had swallow stuff... and swallows in edje are the same thing > > > > > > > >>> basically - just with objects. > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> didn't you see my link to the swallow docs? > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> https://build.enlightenment.org/job/nightly_efl_gcc_x86_64/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/doc/html/group__Edje__Part__Swallow.html#ga97d1419f89bff20ba971e47c78641271 > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> its there in the efl online docs (thats the latest auto > > > > > > > >>> nightly doc build). > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> Good lord man, yes that's a nice bit of history but do you > > > > > > > >> now want him to look up fwm2's docs as well! :) > > > > > > > >> Also, I can't even access that link you gave... And where > > > > > > > >> is the old pdf that had edje documentation (the edje cookbook > > > > > > > >> or something)? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Anyway, why not give a simple explanation of the thing > > > > > > > >> rather than beat around the bush... Something short but to the > > > > > > > >> heart of the matter, like say: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because of the comments that "efl has no docs so its impossible > > > > > > > > to use - this is undocumented anywhere". give a man a fish - > > > > > > > > you feed him for a day. teach a man to fish and you feed him > > > > > > > > for a lifetime. i'm pointing to the docs so he can keep > > > > > > > > looking around and refer to them for more questions etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That works both ways. People who ask questions aren't > > > > > > > necessarily idiots and maybe efl devs can benefit from a bit more > > > > > > > practice in directly and concisely answering their questions - > > > > > > > that way not only do they address the particular issue at hand > > > > > > > but also maybe find it easier to write clear documentation as > > > > > > > they go along writing code.... and even then, no single wording > > > > > > > will ever be clear to everyone. Remember another cliche: If a > > > > > > > thing is truly clear then no explanation is ever needed. And if > > > > > > > it's not, then it's worth explaining again. > > > > > > > > > > > > given this thread... it appears the original poster/question never > > > > > > even found yhe docs hat are there at all, so pointing to them is > > > > > > the firs port of call imho. if THEY do not suffice - then that is a > > > > > > different matter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The docs did not suffice. The explaination below is more than > > > > > anything I founf in the docs. > > > > > > > > but we never even got to that point until now - the docs did tell you > > > > what a swallow is... that the parent takes control of geometry etc. > > > > that api says that. :) > > > > > > The only thing in the PDF doc were a couple of *examples* and no real > > > explaination of what it all *means*. The examples alone is not enough > > > (for me). There wasn't any API docs in the PDF at all. I did: > > > > > > make doc > > > cd doc > > > make refman.pdf > > > xpdf refman.pdf > > > > > > I *expected* some sort of useful explaination, but it was not there. > > > > > > I thought that my original message was clear that I found the docs I > > > found were not useful. > > > > the docs i pointed to - the html ones that we actually look at once we write > > docs, and put on line did explain. we DONT put pdf docs online. we don't > > look at them or check. i know there are issues with doxygen +latex and thus > > the pdf stuff wont work right. > > > > putting "edje swallow" into google for me brings up a lot of refs.. #3 is > > the page with the api ref that tells you what a swallow is. > > > > my point here is - you do not like/want to use html docs. you must have pdf > > ones printed. alas that doesn't work with doxygen and there is a lot of work > > It *DOES* work with doxygen -- I do it all the time with *my* code (see: > http://www.deepsoft.com/modelrailroadsystem/). it doesn't work for us. the tex won't compile to pdf. can't even make a dvi. latex is most unhappy. (a series of sty files not found then ! Undefined control sequence.). and an endless chain of latex complaints. you are the first person to ever ask about the latex (printed) documents - everyone else asks for html. it just doesn't work for efl. doxygen generates latex that just wont "build". 2:05PM ~/C/efl/doc/latex > make rm -f *.ps *.dvi *.aux *.toc *.idx *.ind *.ilg *.log *.out *.brf *.blg *.bbl refman.pdf pdflatex refman This is pdfTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.5-1.40.14 (TeX Live 2013/Arch Linux) restricted \write18 enabled. entering extended mode (./refman.tex LaTeX2e <2011/06/27> Babel <3.9f> and hyphenation patterns for 78 languages loaded. (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/book.cls Document Class: book 2007/10/19 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/bk10.clo)) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/tools/calc.sty) (./doxygen.sty (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/alltt.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/tools/array.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/float/float.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/ifthen.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/tools/verbatim.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/xcolor/xcolor.sty (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/latexconfig/color.cfg) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/pdftex-def/pdftex.def (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/oberdiek/infwarerr.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/oberdiek/ltxcmds.sty)) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/colortbl/colortbl.sty)) ! LaTeX Error: File `xtab.sty' not found. Type X to quit or <RETURN> to proceed, or enter new name. (Default extension: sty) Enter file name: ) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/graphics/graphicx.sty (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/graphics/keyval.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/graphics/graphics.sty (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/graphics/trig.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/latexconfig/graphics.cfg))) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/inputenc.sty (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/utf8.def (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/t1enc.dfu) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/ot1enc.dfu) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/omsenc.dfu))) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/makeidx.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/tools/multicol.sty) ! LaTeX Error: File `multirow.sty' not found. Type X to quit or <RETURN> to proceed, or enter new name. (Default extension: sty) Enter file name: (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/textcomp.sty (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/ts1enc.def (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/ts1enc.dfu))) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/fontenc.sty (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/t1enc.def)) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/psnfss/mathptmx.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/psnfss/helvet.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/psnfss/courier.sty) (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amsfonts/amssymb.sty (/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amsfonts/amsfonts.sty)) ! LaTeX Error: File `sectsty.sty' not found. Type X to quit or <RETURN> to proceed, or enter new name. (Default extension: sty) Enter file name: ! Undefined control sequence. l.22 \allsectionsfont {% etc. etc. - it'll go on forever. > > for us to do. :) after all the effort to document things etc. and all this > > discussion on how bad the docs are, this kind of mail doesn't encourage docs > > to be worked on if they are not used. :( it's a lot of work to write them. > > it's a sheer wast of time to write docs that are not used when they are > > plainly available, trivially searchable etc. etc. :( yes - i know they can > > be better, but i really ask as kindly as i can - use the docs we have > > already. if your preferred way to read docs is to print them out then... > > read - you'll find it basically impossible. search tools - be they grep or > > google are going ot get you the info you want 100 times faster. > > Actually not with dial-up Internet... (Yes, really, I have dial-up Internet, > not by choice, but because it is all that is available where I live and work.) that's rather ... surprising. (and i have to say shocking for me when i sit down here with 100mbit duplex fibre - and this is standard here)... but google still will be faster than flipping through pages of paper - much faster. every technical book i have ever read, i have sat there and gone "why can't i just grep this thing?" and become frustrated. try "make doc" inside any efl lib tree. you'll get docs built (tex, html and manpages - yes... MANUAL PAGES!). look in doc/ and find the dirs (html, man,latex). the latex docs just don't work. they haven't worked for as long as i can remember. doxygen generates something totally wrong/weird/invalid. why - i don't know and i have never spent time to find out since we have working html docs that the vast majority of people want. :) for you you are a special case and "make doc" may help you and give you local html docs. you can print them if you so desire. ;) > > > > > > > >> An edje object is a particular kind of container evas > > > > > > > >> object (also called evas smart objects). In the edc > > > > > > > >> description, an edje object is defined as a 'group'. > > > > > > > >> As a container object, it has child objects and these are > > > > > > > >> declared in the edc as various kinds of 'parts' within that > > > > > > > >> group. There are parts like 'rectangle' and 'image', for > > > > > > > >> example, which are of known type. But an edje can also have > > > > > > > >> child evas objs of any sort by declaring 'swallow' parts in > > > > > > > >> its edc. The 'swallow' C-api is what then enables you to > > > > > > > >> programatically add an arbitrary evas object (that you've > > > > > > > >> obtained somehow) as a child of the edje so as to 'fill' > > > > > > > >> whatever declared swallow part. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> ............ > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Now, where's that iMenu? And E shell-skinning? And improved > > > > > > > >> Exchange server? 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Download this white paper to learn more about secure > > > > > > > code signing practices that can help keep Android apps secure. > > > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com > > > > > Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ > > > > > () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail > > > > > /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development platform > > > > > that developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download > > > > > this white paper to learn more about secure code signing practices > > > > > that can help keep Android apps secure. > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com > > > Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ > > > () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail > > > /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Robert Heller -- 978-544-6933 / hel...@deepsoft.com > Deepwoods Software -- http://www.deepsoft.com/ > () ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail > /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- against proprietary attachments > > > > -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Android is increasing in popularity, but the open development platform that developers love is also attractive to malware creators. Download this white paper to learn more about secure code signing practices that can help keep Android apps secure. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=65839951&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
