Need a hand climbing out of that deep hole you've been hiding in Nom! On 2 Dec, 19:07, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote: > Nah, the neutrino announcement was premature in 2011. > > CERN Confirms Neutrinos Not Faster Than Light > June 11, 2012 > > http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112551696/cern-confirms-neutrin... > > > > > > > > On Sunday, December 2, 2012 1:59:07 PM UTC-5, nominal9 wrote: > > > Sorry for the link, Archytas.... it works for me.....I'll repost it if you > > are really interested in going to it... but it is probably nothing that you > > don't already know... Me on the other hand....I found it eye-opening... the > > analogy is to something I never thought of.... the "string" apparently is > > an analogy to a guitar (or piano) string where different tensions give rise > > to different "sounds"... frequencies and all that.... I always thought the > > analogy referred to some floppy line of particle thingies... a limp noodle > > like a piece of spaghetti.... HAR... > > >http://www.superstringtheory.com/basics/index.html > > > anyway... I heard a while back that some Phycisists.... I believe it was > > Italians... had found some neutrino > > thing".... that travelled at a speed faster than light... I haven't heard > > any follow-up to the story... have you? > > If it proves at least possible.... what does that do for Einstein's > > theory? That reminds me of that "cold-fusion reaction" claim that came > > up... anyway... I also referenced an answer to my question from another > > lab.... which I also posted....Now, all there needs to be is a third > > test... or more.... from maybe the Large Hadron? > > I may not "get" the math.... but I sure do like to notice the test > > results.... > > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/sep/22/faster-than-light-parti... > > > Faster than light particles found, claim scientists > > > Particle physicists detect neutrinos travelling faster than light, a feat > > forbidden by Einstein's theory of special relativity > > > - Share > > > > <http://www.facebook.com/dialog/feed?app_id=180444840287&link=http://w...> > > 19782 > > - > > - > > - inShare146 > > - > > Email<http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/sep/22/faster-than-light-parti...> > > > - Ian Sample <http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/iansample>, science > > correspondent > > - The Guardian <http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian>, Thursday 22 > > September 2011 18.32 EDT > > - Jump to comments > > (619)<http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/sep/22/faster-than-light-parti...> > > > [image: Subatomic Neutrino Tracks] > > Neutrinos, like the ones above, have been detected travelling faster than > > light, say particle physicists. Photograph: Dan Mccoy /Corbis > > > It is a concept that forms a cornerstone of our understanding of the > > universe and the concept of time – nothing can travel faster than the speed > > of light. > > > But now it seems that researchers working in one of the world's largest > > physics <http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/physics> laboratories, under a > > mountain in central Italy, have recorded particles travelling at a speed > > that is supposedly forbidden by Einstein's theory of special relativity. > > > Scientists at the Gran Sasso facility will unveil evidence on Friday that > > raises the troubling possibility of a way to send information back in time, > > blurring the line between past and present and wreaking havoc with the > > fundamental principle of cause and effect. > > > They will announce the result at a special seminar at > > Cern<http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/cern>– the European particle > > physics <http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/particlephysics> laboratory – > > timed to coincide with the publication of a research > > paper<http://arxiv.org/abs/1109.4897>( > > pdf <http://arxiv.org/pdf/1109.4897v1>) describing the experiment. > > > Researchers on the Opera (Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking > > Apparatus) experiment recorded the arrival times of ghostly subatomic > > particles called neutrinos sent from Cern on a 730km journey through the > > Earth to the Gran Sasso lab. > > > The trip would take a beam of light 2.4 milliseconds to complete, but > > after running the experiment for three years and timing the arrival of > > 15,000 neutrinos, the scientists discovered that the particles arrived at > > Gran Sasso sixty billionths of a second earlier, with an error margin of > > plus or minus 10 billionths of a second. > > > The measurement amounts to the neutrinos travelling faster than the speed > > of light by a fraction of 20 parts per million. Since the speed of light is > > 299,792,458 metres per second, the neutrinos were evidently travelling at > > 299,798,454 metres per second. > > > The result is so unlikely that even the research team is being cautious > > with its interpretation. Physicists said they would be sceptical of the > > finding until other laboratories confirmed the result. > > > Antonio Ereditato, coordinator of the Opera collaboration, told the > > Guardian: "We are very much astonished by this result, but a result is > > never a discovery until other people confirm it. > > > "When you get such a result you want to make sure you made no mistakes, > > that there are no nasty things going on you didn't think of. We spent > > months and months doing checks and we have not been able to find any errors. > > > "If there is a problem, it must be a tough, nasty effect, because trivial > > things we are clever enough to rule out." > > > The Opera group said it hoped the physics community would scrutinise the > > result and help uncover any flaws in the measurement, or verify it with > > their own experiments. > > > Subir Sarkar, head of particle theory at Oxford University, said: "If this > > is proved to be true it would be a massive, massive event. It is something > > nobody was expecting. > > > "The constancy of the speed of light essentially underpins our > > understanding of space and time and causality, which is the fact that cause > > comes before effect." > > > The key point underlying causality is that the laws of physics as we know > > them dictate that information cannot be communicated faster than the speed > > of light in a vacuum, added Sarkar. > > > "Cause cannot come after effect and that is absolutely fundamental to our > > construction of the physical universe. If we do not have causality, we are > > buggered." > > > The Opera experiment detects neutrinos as they strike 150,000 "bricks" of > > photographic emulsion films interleaved with lead plates. The detector > > weighs a total of 1300 tonnes. > > > Despite the marginal increase on the speed of light observed by > > Ereditato's team, the result is intriguing because its statistical > > significance, the measure by which particle physics discoveries stand and > > fall, is so strong. > > > Physicists can claim a discovery if the chances of their result being a > > fluke of statistics are greater than five standard deviations, or less than > > one in a few million. The Gran Sasso team's result is six standard > > deviations. > > > Ereditato said the team would not claim a discovery because the result was > > so radical. "Whenever you touch something so fundamental, you have to be > > much more prudent," he said. > > > Alan Kostelecky, an expert in the possibility of faster-than-light > > processes at Indiana University, said that while physicists would await > > confirmation of the result, it was none the less exciting. > > > "It's such a dramatic result it would be difficult to accept without > > others replicating it, but there will be enormous interest in this," he > > told the Guardian. > > > One theory Kostelecky and his colleagues put forward in 1985 predicted > > that neutrinos could travel faster than the speed of light by interacting > > with an unknown field that lurks in the vacuum. > > > "With this kind of background, it is not necessarily the case that the > > limiting speed in nature is the speed of light," he said. "It might > > actually be the speed of neutrinos and light goes more slowly." > > > Neutrinos are mysterious particles. They have a minuscule mass, no > > electric charge, and pass through almost any material as though it was not > > there. > > > Kostelecky said that if the result was verified – a big if – it might pave > > the way to a grand theory that marries gravity with quantum mechanics, a > > puzzle that has defied physicists for nearly a century. > > > "If this is confirmed, this is the first evidence for a crack in the > > structure of physics as we know it that could provide a clue to > > constructing such a unified theory," Kostelecky said. > > > Heinrich Paes, a physicist at Dortmund University, has developed another > > theory that could explain the result. The neutrinos may be taking a > > shortcut through space-time, by travelling from Cern to Gran Sasso through > > extra dimensions. "That can make it look like a particle has gone faster > > than the speed of light when it hasn't," he said. > > > But Susan Cartwright, senior lecturer in particle astrophysics at > > Sheffield University, said: "Neutrino experimental results are not > > historically all that reliable, so the words 'don't hold your breath' do > > spring to mind when you hear very counter-intuitive results like this." > > > Teams at two experiments known as T2K in Japan and MINOS near Chicago in > > the US will now attempt to replicate the finding. The MINOS experiment saw > > hints of neutrinos moving at faster than the speed of light in 2007 but has > > yet to confirm them. > > > • This article was amended on 23 September 2011 to clarify the relevance > > of the speed of light to causality. > > >http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/20/us-science-neutrinos-idUSTR... > > ... > > read more »
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