Thanks, Garl! I wrote that b/c I've been gainfully employed as a redhat sysadmin for almost three years, and just got laid off = / I for one appreciate your viewpoint; I find it often-missing from the user group's members (those who are purely hobbyists, esp.) and have been trying to define the exact separation you suggest, between the "avid" user who like to get under the hood, and the "average" user who wants to get something done (without mucking with it). Personally, I also appreciate being able to adjust mouse sensitivity, for instance, within a gui, but still do many things on the command line. RedHat is certainly investing in, to make more money from, the corporate sector. We as a club have a number of large multinational corporations to thank for the many items of "shwag" which we have been gifted, to help promote linux and other free software. Stuffed toys, t-shirts, bumper stickers, not to mention the many free cd'sheck I even got free beer along with a toy penguin at a free SGI linux conference held in Portland a couple years back! And again, if anyone knows of any work, work announcements, potential work, or even some free consulting which would hopefully lead to work... let me know ([EMAIL PROTECTED], or the address I sent this from, either should work). Thanks for your time!!
ciao, Ben Barrett On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 18:41:52 -0400 "Grigsby, Garl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: | <snip> | | PS - I guess all the redhat support is too busy with their loyal | corporate backers to help on the mailing list... | | <snip> | | Where are the Redhat'rs on this list you ask? I can only speak for | myself, but I have been busy working to earn a living so that I can | provide for my family (and yes I work for a big corporation). As to | the 'religious war' that has been going on, I will take a minute and | stand up for Redhat. | | Redhat as a company has done a lot for the Linux community from | providing personnel (as Bob pointed out ... Cygnus) and hardware (I | doubt the Kernel programmers could afford to by a 8 processor Itanium | server on their own without the help of companies like HP, IBM, | Oracle, Intel, and Redhat) to Open Source effort to bringing a lot of | new users to the Linux family. They have also done a lot to bring | Linux to the Corporate Server room and to the Corporate Desktop (I | doubt corporate users like Ford, GE, Thiokol, Lockheed Martin, NASA, | and the like could take the time to build each workstation and server | from scratch. With a system like Redhat they can use Linux quite | effectively and think how many new users are getting exposed to | Linux.). | | Many have said that Redhat's worst crime is that they are trying to | dumb down Linux, but I think that is important for many, if not most, | users. If we really want to see Linux as a whole thrive (and take on | Windows) then Linux needs to be more accessible to the average Tom, | Dick, and Harriet. I can tell you right now that many potential users | out there would never be able to install Debian, nor would they want | to. | | Most users, outside of geekland, see a computer as a tool, not a toy | or a playground. They use it to accomplish a task, be it sending | email, balancing their check book, or fragging a friend. The would | rather spend their time using the computer than maintaining it. They | are not willing to spend hours reading man pages or HowTos; They are | not going to try a plethora of different options to get a lilo, a | sound card, or X to work. They are not going to try to figure out how | to patch and rebuild the kernel. They are not going to try rebuilding | a graphics driver to get it to work with the latest game or app. They | want a system that works, one that they can configure using easy to | understand forms and GUI's. They don't care that they might be missing | a subtle option or two. They just want it to work. Windows may not be | the most stable OS in the world, and Microsoft might be a rather nasty | company, but Windows is a easy fairly easy to maintain OS. (Yes I am | aware you can't do as muc! | h with it, but how many people really need the ability to run a ftp, | web, mail, and a dns server?). Hell even my mom can keep her Windows | machine running on her own. | | Now there will always be those people who want to be able to get | 'under the hood' and tinker. I confess that I am one of them. But I | will also admit that I like having the ability to change the | acceleration on my mouse without having to edit a config file. I like | the fact that the installation of Redhat can be as easy or as complex | as I need it to be. If I want to, I can install Redhat with only a few | clicks of my mouse by choosing a predefined layout or I can spend a | fair amount of time configuring the system exactly the way I want. | | Have I used other distros? Yes, and I have not settled on one. I | currently use Redhat for several servers at work and am more than | happy with them. I have a Redhat 7.1 box that has been running, with | only limited attention, since the middle of 2001. I will occasionally | get on there and apply a patch or two, but that is it. And the system | is usually working rather hard to boot (Load average is usually around | .7). It presently runs a FTP server, a Web server, a BigBrother | server, and two JAVA network monitoring apps on a Pentium Pro 200 with | 196 Mb of Ram. I have second 7.1 box that has been running about the | same length of time that runs a proxy server, a YP server, and a | instant messaging server, again with little or no maintenance. I have | a 7.0 box that has been running since late 2000. This system runs a | NFS and Samba server, again with little or no interaction. I also have | two Redhat 8.0 boxes. One is a file server (I upgraded it from Redhat | 6 because I wanted to use a JF! | S, and because it was so damn outdated). The other sets on my desk | next to my HPUX workstation and my Windows Workstation (I see each OS | as having it's advantages). I also run Mandrake and Knoppix. | Currently I have version 9 on my Dell Laptop and I run Knoppix on my | machine at home. | | Have I tried other distros? Yes, in the past I have used Storm Linux, | Debian, FreeBSD, Knoppix, Suse, and Slackware, but I found them all to | be lacking in one way or another. Does this mean I will never try them | again? No. I like playing with Linux. Hell I am trying to find a way | to get my hands on a Mac so I can tinker with OS X. I love the idea of | a clean, well thought out GUI built on top of a Unix frame. (Hmmmm, | stability) | | The first time I tried Linux was in 1993. I got it installed, but I | was never able to get X to work, but I never gave up. I kept coming | back every once in a while to play with it. The first release that I | was truly successful with was Redhat v4. In fact I was so successful | with it that I went out and bought a boxed copy. Since then I have | bought boxed copies of Redhat 5.2, 6.something, and 7.1. I have also | bought boxed copies of Mandrake, but I don' remember which ones. I | think it is very important to support the compaines that are trying to | make Linux better however I can. I'm not a programer so I support | Linux by helping new users and by sending a few dollars their way when | I can afford it. | | Which distro do I like? My present feelings are that Mandrake makes a | good, general purpose, desktop distro, but it makes horrid distro for | a server. I think it also works better than most on laptops. I feel | that Redhat does a very good job as a as a server distro. They have a | good mix of software out of the box and it is fairly easy to setup. I | think it also makes a decent distro for a corporate desktop. Redhat | does not have a lot of the 'fluff' that Mandrake does and so I think | it is a better fit for a business user. They also have a number of | tools for maintaining large groups of workstations (The Redhat | Enterprise Network), and for deploying a large number of identical | workstations (Kickstart). From the stand point of a Corporate IT | person responsible for more than 4 or 5 Linux workstations I think | Redhat would be the only way to go. | | I know that this was long, and probably a bit rambling as I have been | writing it on and off all day, but here it is. I hope stating that I | like Redhat does not get me booted from the list as a heretic. | | G | _______________________________________________ EuG-LUG mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.efn.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/eug-lug
