jerry dycus wrote: > Hi Adam and All, >--- Adam Kuehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> jerry dycus wrote: >> >> > > As are many other lesees, he's >> > > contemplating all the >> >> possible options for keeping (like having some >> >> 'steal' it, etc.)... > I didn't say this , it was the first poster, >kidding.
I included it to give your post context. I'm sorry if I caused any confusion as to who said what. > I did not say to make a false police report >either. Nor did I say you did, though as other folks have pointed out, under certain circumstances you may be required to do so, and it is quite possible that under some of those circumstances failure to do so will result in an entirely separate criminal offense. > I said to tell them, GM Finance, you lost it. >Then you say it was your fault and offer to pay for >it. No insurance company nessesary. > The most they can do is have a court force you to >come up with it. If you offer to pay for it they can't >say they lost any value, thus no harm. And since they >have pay-offs for wrecked, stolen cars they can't say >they don't let others pay-off. > It can be legally lost in the same way political >ads are done for other people so you really don't know >where the car is. No, it can't. The moment you tell GM you lost it, you have a legal problem. If you didn't actually lose it (meaning you know where it is), then telling GM that you did with intent to deprive them of ownership is attempted fraud. If you "lost" it, in the sense of not knowing where it is at the particular moment you are asked, then one of three things (within the bounds of this discussion) is true: 1. You intentionally allowed it to get "lost" so as to deprive GM of ownership. This is still fraud, and most likely conspiracy, as well, as this almost certainly requires the cooperation of someone else. 2. You negligently allowed it to get "lost", but can locate it with reasonable effort. You are therefore required to exercise the reasonable effort, and failure to do so is intentionally criminal just as though you had hidden it yourself. 3. You negligently allowed it to get "lost", and cannot locate it with reasonable effort. In this case, by definition you cannot get the car, and you still owe GM for the value of the car due to your own negligence. There is really no win for the customer by lying. You are much better off trying the civil disobedience idea and simply truthfully refusing to deliver the car at the expiration of the lease. Even then, one person suggested you hide the car during the property dispute. That, too, is chargeable as a criminal offense in a case where, as here, you know the other party has a legitimate claim. Civil disobedience (and I have no problem calling this act by that name, since the goal is most definitely civic-minded) may cause unwanted publicity for GM and that may or may not cause them to change their behavior. You still must accept the consequences of disregarding the law, but at least if you know this going in, you are can be prepared for the consequences. Expecting to be able to do this and just walk away with a new EV is just kidding yourself. > If you pay the value for it it is yours. They >can't charge you for something, you pay it and then >say you stole it. Actually, they can do precisely this if they sent you the bill as a result of your misrepresentations. > My advice to see a lawyer was so it was done the >right way, legally. I'd advise you see a lawyer, as well, and no competent attorney will be able to find a legal way. There isn't one. > I never said to dis-obey a law. But anyone who >knows about laws, contracts, knows there are legal >ways around them. That's what lawyers are for. Hmph. > So be careful about assuming, Indeed. -- -Adam Kuehn
